Theorycrafting - Warlocks in PVP

#0 - Nov. 9, 2007, 2:17 p.m.

First of all, a couple warnings:
1- This is not a whine post.
2- This will be long.
3- If you don't agree with some point or otherwise think I'm inciting flames agaisnt warlocks, I suggest you read it til the end.

Now, this post is about how I see warlocks and the balance of the class in PVP. This is not about saying that warlocks are overpowered, but what are their weaknesses, their strengths and about the ones that are indeed too powerful I'm going to try and explain how it came to that.
I think most experienced warlocks/players will agree with me on this, but I'm quite open to replies and critics - just do it in a civilized and contructive way.

First I'll state some facts:
- Destruction is not viable in arenas when compared to its alternatives.
- Soul Link specs (in particular the so called 'SL/SL' spec) are too powerful in 1v1 and 2v2, perhaps a bit in 3v3, but deffinetly not in 5v5.
- Unstable Affliction is the arena DPS spec, but it has one problem that destruction shares: Survivability.

Now, why is it so many warlocks that enjoy PVP spec for Syphon Life and Soul Link? One explanation could be that it's the easiest spec to play, but other than that it's the one spec that offers them survivability, which is needed in group PVP but can become extremely powerful in 1v1 situations.
But can other classes blame warlocks for speccing that way? Look at mages: The only viable spec is frost, because other specs don't have ice block, or if they do they will lack a lot of utility full frost does. Soul Link and Ice Block are similar... Without it you're going to be an easy target in arenas and group PVP.

But why is it other specs can't survive so much? Soul Link turned warlocks into tanks, I won't deny it. That's where the expression "Drain Tank" comes from... A cloth-wearing caster tanking a warrior through a 1v1 fight and still winning is deffinetly not something to take lightly, and no class will beat a Soul Link warrior 1v1 post resilience stacking. But truth is, warlocks needed a defense mechanism, but it is my opinion that warlocks shouldn't have been turned into tanks, but rather given worthy crowd control.
For the purpose of balancing 5v5 arena and giving warlocks a spec able to survive in any setup, they made them able to outlast any class in a 1v1 match up, and while that is not something that will worry some players, it's not right.
But most of all, other warlock specs (that many think to be more interesting) won't do well enough, because an unstable affliction warlock will still get beaten up by a warrior or a rogue 1v1 without much chance, and he'll be so much easier to take down in a group PVP situation.

But now I'm going to adress the main issue and the main reason of this post: Why do warlocks need Soul Link?
My answer is: the fear and dot mechanics have never worked.
If a fear lasts a whole duration with dots on the target, the target will most likely die without being able to do anything. If a fear gets countered every single time and the warlock can't do anything to control his opponent, the warlock will die without much chance. So how exactly do you balance that? Blizzard just never did. Why can't they? One reason is will of the forsaken. As many people know, a lot of the horde population is made of undeads, and 1 more way to break fear and a 5 second immunity simply makes fear so hard to balance, because some players will have 1 more way to break fear than others, and that is much more powerful than most realize... The difference between getting stuck for 6 seconds getting drained while dots tick instead of simply breaking it.
Another issue is that fear can break instantly... How can it be a defense skill if it breaks instantly? The warlock will lose his defense mechanism and once again be rendered unable to counter his opponent.
So because the developers couldn't balance fear and dots, they simply nerfed fear over and over to the point where it was easily counterable and couldn't be abused. But at that point warlocks lost their defenses... And so they were given Soul Link, making them able to simply stand there, drainin their opponents without having to rely on crowd control, which is in most people's opinion: Overpowered.

Tharfor

#8 - Nov. 9, 2007, 2:50 p.m.

From what I read you seem to be saying that if a warlock wants to be at the top of his game in PvP, he should spec a certain way.
You also seemed to say that if a mage wants to be at the top of his game in PvP, he should spec a certain way.
I would be willing to go out on a limb and suggest that all classes have a certain talent point distribution which would be the "perfect" setup for PvP.
Sure, other talent point distributions would still work; but there is an ideal setup for everyone.

You also stated that the SL/SL build loses it's strength as the size of the group grows.

Q u o t e:
Soul Link specs (in particular the so called 'SL/SL' spec) are too powerful in 1v1 and 2v2, perhaps a bit in 3v3, but deffinetly not in 5v5.

It has already been officially stated that PvP is not, and likely never will be, balanced around small scale PvP (1vs1, 2vs2, etc).

Therefore, I think you have answered your own issue by saying that warlocks are not overpowered when looked at from the seemingly intended balance point of 'larger scale' PvP.

Tharfor

#24 - Nov. 9, 2007, 3:38 p.m.

I'm not saying you're wrong.

There are a number of changes, adjustments, and tweaks that could be made to make warlocks less powerful in smaller scale PvP.

..but by your logic alone we can say that the strength of warlocks is diminished as the scale of the PvP increases.

I'm not saying it's right that warlocks should be so powerful as a solo class simply because the balance is aimed somewhere else, but that's the way it is and it has been said that little to no balancing will be done for 1vs1 or 2vs2 scenarios. It was even announced recently that there was almost not going to be a 2vs2 arena due to balance concerns.

The bottom line is that warlocks are a powerful solo class - but I don't remember anyone claiming that they would be anything else and it is only natural that some of that powerful solo ability would transfer across to solo PvP, even if it was originally intended to be a PvE strength.

Tharfor

#33 - Nov. 9, 2007, 4:01 p.m.

Q u o t e:
Then how about stop giving points for those brackets then?

Well that's a different discussion, isn't it? :)

Tharfor

#44 - Nov. 9, 2007, 4:26 p.m.

Of course it's a no-brainer, Yaskinforit.

Just like it's a no-brainer that you should not be trying to fill every role in PvE and you should not be able to solo all content in an MMO.

I understand the people that say "It's an MMO, you play it with your friends."
I can understand those that say "I sometimes just want to play a bit by myself, take a break from 'other people'."
I even understand the ones that say "No one else is as good as me. Why should I group with them when I can pwn in PvP solo?"

The point is that everyone has different expectations of a game like WoW and, even with the best of intentions, I think it would be asking too much that everyone gets a balanced and fair version of what they personally want.

All we can really hope and ask for is that the development of the game is balanced around the development plan and projection.

In fact, I am reminded of a BlizzCon quote:

Q u o t e:
2:37 Rob Pardo says if you loved your class when WoW shipped, that's me. If you like them now, that's Tom.

http://www.wowinsider.com/2007/08/03/liveblogging-the-blizzcon-wow-class-panel/

I have been on the "OMG What?! WHY?!" side of things when patch notes game out and I am certain that every patch will have that effect on someone; but in the end everything has worked out just fine and I firmly believe that things will continue to work out just fine.

Tharfor

#49 - Nov. 9, 2007, 4:59 p.m.

As on topic as I can be without repeating myself too much:
I'm afraid can't say the things you want to hear, Sidek.

1) As far as I know duelling is not a key feature or focus of the continued development of the game and whilst it is recognised that there are players who like this feature, I doubt that there will be much tweaking or balancing in that area. :(

2) Regarding 'dead' specs I would say that talents and abilities are always in a state of flux as the game development continues so it's pretty safe to say that the way things are now are not the way things will always be. :)

Faith - I have enough for all of us :D