#345 - Jan. 25, 2010, 5:09 p.m.
Re: Shield Slam, Revenge and Devastate
The damage you're going to do depends a lot on your gear, raid buffs and personal style. But I think these are in the ballpark for an Icecrown 25 guild.
Shield Slam -- hits for maybe 3500.
Revenge -- hits for maybe 3000.
Devastate -- hits for maybe 2000.
Over the course of a raid, Shield Slam and Devastate might do about the same total damage, with Revenge doing 50% of that. (In other words, if we ignore all other abilities, you'd have a pie chart with a 40%, 40%, and 20% slice, though Revenge can be pretty variable.) So at first glance, you might imagine a world in which Devastate eclipses all other abilities. But let's consider them in more detail. You're probably using Shield Slam half as often as you're hitting Devastate because of the cooldown. Are you going to give up that much damage packaged into one GCD? Now Revenge on the other hand might be a contender for another Devastate GCD, but consider the enormous rage bargain that is Revenge, even that doesn't seem like a big concern.
Q u o t e:
Indeed. So many people either don't know (or have forgotten) that the real reason raids didn't AoE trash back in TBC was because the stuff you weren't supposed to AoE would either 3-shot your tank or charge your healers and 1-shot them. AoE threat is irrelevant when over pulling makes your tank drop dead.
Yeah, in some ways this is less frustrating for tanks. It's, perhaps surprisingly, often more acceptable to drop dead than it is to struggle to maintain theat. The risk is that if the components of these multi pulls can hurt a tank then they will absolutely destroy a non tank, so if the tank ever fails to hold one of the adds that someone is going to get insta-gibbed. That scenario can put even more pressure on the tank to hold aggro than in a situation where a rogue can Evasion tank or whatever a loose mob for a few seconds.
Q u o t e:
For as much you have tweaked the threat game over the course of the expansion, that whole First Five Seconds panic portion has not really changed at all. If I did not have to worry about tagging every mob with a high threat move just to keep stray elites from one-shotting the healer, I would not mind if Consecrate was more like Thunderclap or whatever design you like.
This is something we talk a lot about. On the one hand, good healers know not to overdo it in the first few seconds because the tank is unlikely to die anyway. On the other, it's a bit awkward that threat issues are exponentially more dangerous in the first few seconds than in those that follow.
Q u o t e:
It IS our AOE tanking that needs more buttons. We have plenty to do single target.
Agreed. I was actually referring to AE tanking on druids. Though given that the same players generally understand the complexity of the cat rotation, even the single-target druid tanking style might benefit from another button.
Q u o t e:
2.) I disagree that removing the defensive stance penalty would hurt PvP.
Good Prot warriors stay in Defensive much of the time in PvP, because it's just not much of a dps loss for them given how many tools and how much survivability they have. This was our concern when we first chilled out the damage penalty for being in Defensive. There have to be trade-offs for survivability, and some of our PvP balance problems especially with the plate-wearers, have been because there weren't.