Regional FlagRogues 12984 - Dealing less damage than tanksSource
Target Source
#0 - 2010/09/20 12:06:48 AM
So last night I did a 5 man (Tol'vir) and after seeing recount my stomach felt a deep pang of agony which it had not felt since Wrath Beta.

On bosses, I was averaging about 4.5k DPS sustained, maybe 5k, while our bear tank was dealing roughly 6k (single target, numbers changed if we were doing multi-target fights, but the result was the same, I could not beat the tank in damage and I was 4th in the group).

Group comp was me, bear tank, Moonkin (of whom I was doing roughly 60-75% of its DPS), an 84 BM hunter, and a holy paladin.

Here was my Glyph/Talent build:

I was using the ilevel 346 Tol Barad weapons with roughly 50% 277 ICC gear, the rest of it being a collection of 333 blues, heirloom cloak/helm, and other random Cataclysm items, such as the 346 Therazane rep ring.

The bear tank was using slightly over half 333 gear with a couple of ICC Wrath epics. While there is some disparity, but since my weapons were more than up to scratch, I really shouldn't be getting beaten by a tank, much less annihilated by Moonkins.

My Sinister Strikes were doing roughly 5.1-5.8k crits and Eviscerate was capping out at roughly 15k (MAYBE) with Glyphed Revealing Strike. This is on a boss with Feral Sunder and having buffs from other classes, using a 409 DPS weapon. On single target, I was doing roughly 4.5k-5k DPS, trying both Ruptureless and a Rupture rotation, using 3-4 Sinisters and a Revealing before each Rupture/Evis and keeping up SND full time, making use of Glyphed Adrenaline Rush and using Killing Spree when possible. The bear tank was doing about a thousand more DPS than me and I was barely doing more than half the DPS of our Moonkin.

This leads me to ask the question: why? After evaluating the Beta changes and having played Beta extremely heavily since mid-July, the only significant change to Combat's rotation is that I need to put up Revealing Strike before using an offensive finisher, which I'm doing. I'm also highly experienced with my class. I've been playing Combat in raids nearly non-stop since the very beginning of TBC and I've participated in top 50 worldwide kills of most Heroic ICC bosses, including Lich King (15% buff).

It just feels as if my class got completely gutted by a lot of the Cataclysm changes. Losing out on ArP, something which we strove to cap in Wrath as Combat really hurts our damage, especially when you couple it with losing the poison talents as well as the 10 Expertise talents. Obviously pretty much every other class took a loss like this spec-wise, but I feel that it has too powerful of an effect on Combat DPS and we have not yet been compensated.

Yes, my gear is below the standard of Twilight Highlands greens, as there was little to no itemization in anything past Vashj'ir/Hyjal when I ran this character through the leveling process (and Mastery wasn't implemented, either), so I do realize I'm undergeared, but I do have the most important aspect of gearing covered, which is weapons, so I strongly feel that I shouldn't be having such terrible problems.

Are other rogues experiencing this? I know Mutilate is just as bad now because the only thing keeping its DPS afloat was the "bugs" involving Master Poisoner, and now is doing laughable DPS thanks to it being fixed.

Is this one of those "get full 346 blues and the issue will magically be fixed" types of deals? If I felt that it was, I wouldn't be making this post, but since I have 346 weapons already, I highly doubt I'll magically start dealing 50-100% more DPS by replacing the rest of my armour.

So my questions are these:

1) Is there an upcoming numbers pass, specifically one that addresses rogue DPS?

2) Will rogues magically start doing nearly double the DPS they are now once we get an average gear level of 333?

Blue Poster
Target Source
#40 - 2010/09/24 03:12:53 AM
Q u o t e:
There has not been a numbers pass. No class has received one. These numbers are not going live. It is going to be ok.

Yep. I can tell you right now that Combat's dps is a little low. This is a known issue.

Q u o t e:
That's not how the avg ilvl thing works, it takes the highest and lowest single pieces you have, and comes up with an average. It's not a true overage of you gear.

The built-in Blizzard number is an average of the best piece of gear in every slot. It counts equipped gear as well as your bags and banks. It is meant as a general measurement of whether you're capable of handling a dungeon or not, and shouldn't be taken too seriously as a measurement of awesomeness.

Q u o t e:
Its really sad how less of our feedback has been looked at.

I've been Beta Testing in WotLK aswell.
After "Rage-Fixing" Rogues due to crazy Poison Dps, we weren't able to Compete untill Ulduar.
Not counting Honor among Thiefs in of course.

I REALLY don't want this to happen again!

So we'd better raise our Voices now when there's still time to make things right for Rogues.

We're not interested in hearing how you feel ignored. If this is your contribution to the discussion, please save ourselves and others from having to read it. If you continue to make posts that do not contribute meaningfully to the discussion then someone will have to ban you.

Q u o t e:
Retribution is on the same boat, our feedback threads on these forums have been neglected it seems GC responds to certain class's over certain periods so they must shift focus every week or so. (Although I have seen him lock some QQ threads on the PTR forums for some reason?)

Some reason = nobody wants to read crying. If you have feedback on your class, by all means, post that feedback. If you have said everything you have to say, then your job is done. Using terms like "neglected" and "ignored" almost certainly means you are off topic and in turn means we are likely to skip over your post. I didn't do it this time in hopes of bringing your attention to how often we actually do it.

Q u o t e:
We can't even properly Test Heroic Dungeons.

For EU Rogues its even worse since Premades won't happen in near Future.

It's so damn Depressing right now. We need some Dev. Feedback asap.

Please do not fish for blue responses. You won't be warned again.

Sorry to sound like a jerk, but it's important that we keep these forums as a useful delivery mechanism of actual information to the developers and not a convenient space for pity parties. You are infringing upon our ability to do our jobs when you make posts that are a waste of time. I'm not sure how else to put it.

Q u o t e:
Still unheared after all our complaints. Makes me even more Sad.
Do we need some massive Nerd-Rage in here and get ourselfs Banned or what?

In your case, consider the job done.