Why nerf priests?

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/sigh....

We just did the change to Warlock dots and now there has been a slight adjustment to the Priest dot as well. They've been brought more in line to the amount of damage we feel is appropriate for these spells. I realize many people will argue about whether or not it was warranted, what this does for the Priest class as a whole etc, but please remember that change and adjustments will continue for many classes as things progress. Some of those changes will be popular and others will not be but it's all done with the bigger picture in mind. While it's easy to say , "That's what beta is for" betas only test so much and then you need a live population to see if the beta gave an accurate portrayal of how things are or not.

Please feel free to shoot the messenger in this thread and not spread it out to multiple threads please.

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/Target Neth
/Begin to squeeze trigger
/Hesitate
/Lower Gun
/Tame Neth as a pet

0.o I am not tameable. Sorry. :)

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Is that all you do is damage control?

Try going to our forums and reading, compiling and HELPING. Not giving us posts telling us that you don't know if anything is going to happen. Damage control only from you is getting old.

You view it as damage control. Others view it as being helpful and staying in contact. Which is it really? I guess it depends on your viewpoint.

From my viewpoint, I'm doing what I can to inform people of what we are doing and why as much as I can. I happen to... get this... LIKE helping the community and like the community as a whole. I'm a bit odd like that.

We made a change that I know full well that many people aren't going to like, but it was something we felt was valid. People are bound to disagree with us from time to time.

Just as a quick edit, we don't like giving and taking away but sometimes those are the hard choices we need to make.

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could you please inform us if blizzard is looking to engineering and if they have seen the concerns brought forth in the profession forum? we engineers have been waiting for a response for months now, even your MVP's have shown concern for the profession and nothing has been said by the cms.

I'll have to put that one down to ask about. Someone else on the team may have already forwarded on concerns and questions in that regard.

I have forwarded many concerns regarding Priests as well on to the rest of the team but do not have an eta of when I'll have feedback or more information to share. We are watching many things at once and will do what we can as we can to keep getting information out to everyone. It just doesn't always happen as fast as people feel it should sometimes.

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We don't want to shoot the messenger, we just want you to deliver OUR message.

It has been delivered already. What you all want is an immediate answer and solutions to things that may not be felt to be wrong or broken. I don't have answers for you right now and I don't know when I or any of the community team will. No one is ignoring anything but sometimes there are priorities in place that cause answers to come slower than people feel they should.

Yes, I've played the class from very early beta before World of Warcraft was ever released. It's one of many classes I have played in the long period of time I've played WoW. There is an insinuation often repeated that the Community Team doesn't pass things along and that the rest of the development team doesn't care but I can tell you that is not true. There are always more things going on than people realize.

I always hear about people saying how they have rerolled to another class. I wonder if anyone reallly keeps track though of how many are rerolling to someone elses class that had people that rerolled to THEIR class in return. I wonder how many people are rolling fresh characters because they had other reasons beyond "You killed my class". I would think there are quite a few that are doing all of the above.

There are people that are admittedly happy with their classes that may not even be a part of these forums. I don't think anyone can claim based on forum response that this represents the "majority". It represents a portion of the community. Don't take that to mean "you don't count". I would hate for someone to twist my words to make it seem as if that is a true statement. Feedback continues to be generated from various sources including these forums.

People tend to voice their discontent most when changes occur because no one generally likes change. Even positive changes can be met with discontent by a person or group of people, as I'm sure you've all witnessed on these forums. Even among the community, people find themselves at odds over which spec is best, what stats are best and more. I have no doubt that should changes occur based on feedback that there will be a portion of people that either feel it is not enough or not warranted and they will post their disatisfaction with great vehemence.

There is a mob mentality that comes into play sometimes when people start voicing concerns and it makes it seem as if everyone is unhappy even when they are not. I have no doubt that some people are in fact concerned and unhappy. Those concerns are valid from your perspective and we are by no means dismissing them. However, I will continue to press people to realize that our perspective may be different based on different information that we have access to.

I also will continue to press upon you that we may not come back with answers to your concerns (when we can) that will make you feel as if everything is all better. There is more to balancing things than "just do this". Remember, PvP isn't based on one on one performance. Your survivability may be better with a certain group type or paired with other classes. It may have many variables such as where you were when you engaged, did you attack or were you attacked? What kind of equipment do you have? How much experience as a PvPer do you have? and more. Every change for PvE effects PvP as well and it's important to realize that making fundamental changes can have drastic effects to one or the other.

I read one post today that said they only saw a 2 point damage difference since the change to Shadow Word: Pain. I wonder how many others have had the same experience and haven't posted about it. I'm sure that many people posted to counter it and claim different numbers based on their own specs and equipment make-up as well. Everyone's experiences are their own and can differ greatly from one person to another even when playing the same class.

The sky is not falling for Priests. They are still effective and wanted members of groups both in PvE and PvP.

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Funny, because Kalgan actually talked about how Circle of Healing could probably use a change into a smarter heal. Maybe you should relook at some of these things.

Am I saying that priests suck and oh whoa is me? No. Am I saying that there are some flaws that should probably be addressed before they give us another minor nerf for some random reason? Yes.

These are the same exact problems that druids had pre 1.8. They were collateral damage to other classes getting nerfed and the problem with the class wasn't any one major thing but a bunch of stupid things that made it a complicated issue.

Druids were fixed, it isn't unreasonable to think priests should get some fixes too.

We still believe that there are possibly some suggestions and viewpoints that are valid and applicable that will be looked at. Circle of Healing is still something that is on the list for review. I've said as much in other posts. The only thing I can't tell you all is what changes and when they could occur. There is a lot of information to be gone through from the playerbase as well as internally before any possible changes could occur. As you notice I'm using a lot of terms like "Could" or "Possibly" because I can't promise changes. I can only tell you about what I know of at this point in time. When there is more to be said, it will be. I also don't want anyone to take what I say out of context that I promised something that I didn't.

The only thing I can say is what I have been saying all along, that your perceptions and observations are being looked at and evaluated for what bits of them are valid and what are just simply perceptions.

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"Surprisingly, a study found only one out of 26 customers who are dissatisfied with a product or service actually complain. Another survey found that more than 70 percent of consumers, who are fully justified in complaining, don't do so. Perhaps more consumers would express their dissatisfaction if they know that yet another survey found that 56 percent of all complaints result in satisfaction for the complainer. Most consumers have received bad service for so long they expect it. Don't fall into that trap. Expect -- no demand -- good service. When you don't get it, complain, complain, complain."

Tschohl, John. "Show Me the Service." American Salesman July 2003: 28-30.

85.5% of all statistics are made up, including this one. :)

We have our own internal numbers of what is and isn't happening. My question previously about "who keeps track" was in reference to among the community themselves. Even then, the most dependable numbers will always be ours which don't show the same dire numbers that others are saying exist.

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The fact that a priest player who presents data from a study, with attribution, is openly laughed at by an official Blizzard representative is pretty indicative right there of the company's attitude towards us.

No. Sorry. It was more of a light-hearted take on something that has gotten a bit too far into a realm that I don't handle. I don't monitor market shares, internal polls or data of that sort. I can't share specific numbers with you nor am I authorized to. Where are the counter quotes though to how many people ARE happy and don't give compliments? That was my reasoning for countering the negative bent on those quotes. It's dangerous to assume everyone is happy but it can be equally dangerous to assume everyone is unhappy and make changes based on that. Therein was my point. People are not an exact science.

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hey, Nethaera, be sure to remind the Devs about shamans, specifically the new elemental talents, the large divide between pvp/pve specs (not nearly as present in other hybrids), and enhancement pvp viability as a whole.

That is a whole other ball of wax my friend. When I say "all classes" are being looked at constantly, you can take that to the bank. This thread is focused on Priests and while it stems a bit more into other aspects, I think it's important to keep the thread on that focus. I'm going to move this thread to the Priest forums in fact so that it can stay on target.

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Sure they are your just not a High enough level to use the hybrid alchemy /engineering pattern Craft human

those who say something isn't an exact science need ot spend a little more time grinding thier tradeskills or perhaps contemplate the ways to determine if someone is or isn't a witch through scientific methods of weights and measures. in short when life gives you a witch build a bridge out of her.

- this message is brought to you by those who seek the Grail and havechopped down the mightest tree with a herring.

By posting on a Blood Elf Priest you have made me curious as to how it is going for you so far. :)

Also, the thread was moved here for a couple of reasons (for those that feel it's going to be buried).

First, it keeps people from other classes from attempting to derail it for their own purposes.
Second, it is less likely to get buried under other posts.


Yes, the developers read the various forums. Just because you don't see them post doesn't mean they aren't watching.

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Reading the blue posts here make me flash back to when the Vietnam war was going on. The government insisted there was a "silent majority" that kept with them in the war, that was supportive of our affront against the communists.

What the government and blizzard did not do was ask this silent majority how they really felt about the war. (Or in this case the priest changes/updates/Expansion content). There no way you can prove that there is a silent majority that like the priest class regardless, unless you embark on a huge campaign to have some Q&A with a large number of priests in-game.

I don't think its a viable argument to ever hide behind the silent majority, and I still do not see justification of the shadow word pain nerf. We only have one damage over time spell untalented, like many other classes. Why didn't serpent sting, rend, rupture, or the catform DoT also get nerfed if DoTs are overpowered?

I think that Warlocks do have alot of power with thier DoTs, and its none of my business what blizzard does with warlocks. but priests did not deserve this nerf, especially after lackluster expansion abilities (That get nerfed even before we get them) and helter-scelter talent trees still plague the class.

Please keep highly charged real world examples out of the thread. It does nothing but distract. Also as a warning (which I hate to do) taking pot shots at me on a personal level will get people suspended such as I have already done with the person that felt it necessary to call me a moron. I will continue to be respectful of all of you if you all do the same for me.

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Easy fix. Post Blizzard's numbers to contradict sites like WoWCensus and such. Player's have been asking for that information for a long time yet all Blizzard wants to tell thier playerbase is that those sites are wrong.

/shrug

Sorry, but this information is confidential and for internal use only. I'm sure there are many things players would like hard data on and many things we can't share with you.

If I can get back with more answers to questions I will.

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Heyas, it's friday again.
Another week past.
Another weeks worth of questions, suggestions and constructive (well, mostly) criticism.

I'm assuming that this week's worth of feedback has been taken to the devs, and that at some point there's been a sit down and discuss where the priests are at?

I know there was no update last week.
Or the week before that.
Or the week before that.
Or the week before that.
Or...

However, any chance of an update this week?
Any sort of information would be good, even confirmation of a meeting having taken place, like 'Me and 2 other CM's sat down with 2 of the Devs and Charlie Chaplin and went over the Priest Communities concerns for 2 hours on wednsday. They said they're still thinking about CoH, and that they'll look further into PW:S when they're done with their ...' I could go on, but the urge to insert patronising invented conversation is too big for me to avoid, and I really would like some feedback on how/if any discussion on priests might be progressing, or even if it is progressing at all, cause for the last few months, our only information has been 'we're going to look into CoH' followed by 'and we decided that we're nerfing SW:P 5%', and you can see how that might lead us to believe that perhaps it's time to give up hope.

I actually posted in another thread on these forums earlier with a minor update.

For one, a lot of feedback has been forwarded on.

Yes, I've spoken about it in person on two occassions this week. (Charlie Chaplin was not in attendance.) No, I can't give you a specific update as of yet since the feedback is being gone over. It will take a bit of time before there will be anything more that I can tell you.

No, we aren't doing big class reviews anymore but we are adjusting things that need it and fixing things (of course) that need it. We are doing this on multiple levels and not just focused on class issues.

Once we know more we'll be able to start giving more concrete information but for now, the most we can do is wait for that information to be made ready to us to give to you.

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Would you please tell us what the paramount concerns are, in your eyes, that you've brought up with the developers? I, and I'm sure a lot of people here, would like to see what issues you've discussed. I'm sure whatever it is, is not the whole lot of problems that you intent to discuss, but I think it would help if we knew some of the pressing matters on the chopping block :)

So basically, what have you discussed with the developers recently that 'you' think needs to be addressed?

Thanks Nath.

Well, they have links to posts that you all have created as well as I brought up things such as pvp survivability, mana regen concerns, healing scaling, just to name a few.

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we've waited for over two years. give us one good reason to believe you now, that you're paying even the slightest bit of attention to the priest class issues. just one.

There is nothing that I could do to convince you. You either believe or not. It's ultimately your choice.

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She's checking with number two on rules for banning customer's....

I don't hate anyone. Sorry to disappoint. Now you'll have to change your sig!