Is Blizz Concerned About This? Class Morale

#0 - Oct. 9, 2006, 10:35 p.m.
Blizzard Post
I wonder, is Blizzard concerned about the fact that most Druids are miserably disappointed with their BC preview and totally pessimistic about Blizzards ability or willingness to address the core problems with the class?

Look, all the class previews are now out, and it's fair to say that the reaction (aside from Druids) has ranged from basically happy to ecstatic. I know individuals might not be content, and others are dissapointed that they didn't get more, but no class is singularly discouraged, disheartened, and de-moralized the way that druids are.

Druids looked for the BC talents and spells to be the source of a much needed revamp of the ailing class. What druids received instead were either "fluff skills" like Crow Form, which doesn't add any utility but instead just saves some gold, or skills that help druids in areas they didn't need help in (healing and holding agro while tanking). Maim and Cyclone will be useful, to be sure, but they don't address the core problems that experienced Druids are so familiar with. I'll try to list them to the best of my abilities.

1) Poor itemization: Balance gear in leather is the rarest gear in the game, aside from pally tanking gear. Tiered class gear that only supports one role for the 3-roled class has only made things worse instead of better. Likewise, many feral DPS or tanking item slots are capped out by gear that can be acquired from 20 man raids or 5 man instances, with nothing available in the game that is better. As a result, the dps and tanking gap between druids and other classes significantly widens for druids as they advance through the game, giving the feeling that druids move backwards instead of forwards as they and their guild progresses through content. For instance, it is viable for druids to tank in Molten Core because the gear they have available before MC is comparable to the gear that warriors can get before MC, and the content is tuned accordingly. In BWL and beyond, the content is tuned toward upgraded tank gear, but druids receive no such upgrades, and thus become non-viable. This scenario is mirrored with DPS feral and balance gear as well.

There is also the significant problem that the gear and mechanics available to druids severely limit a druids ability to use his class-defining characteristics--shape shifting. A druid in feral gear is a very very poor healer, and may only have enough mana for 2 or 3 heals. Likewise, a druid in healing gear cannot dps as much as a priest using shadow word pain and a wand, Itemization for druids needs to be re-thought to account for these difficulties.

2) Lack of hybrid talents: The talent trees force druids into specialization specs, forcing balance and feral druids to spend nearly all of their talent points in talents that increase their effectiveness in their specced role, but leave them woefully underpowered in other specs. For instance, a feral druid has the longest base heal in the game, at 3.5 second cast time, doesn't have swiftmend, and doesn't have nature's swiftness, making him a worse healer for end game content than a non-healing specced shaman or paladin. Druids need talents akin to talents in the paladin and shaman trees which simultaneously increase healing ability AND their dps. Druids should not be forced into spending 51 points in talents that increase their dps, as is the case now, but should instead have a pool of talent points available to spend in utility or healing talents.

For instance, for the BC talents, a feral druid would have to spend all 61 talent points to get the talents that increase his dps, which he must do to have a hope of having comparable dps. With the exception of heart of the wild, none of these talents helps the druid in a healing role, meaning he is basically as good of a healer as if he spent zero talent points. The alternative should be that talents that increase dps should also have some sort of healing utility attached to them. Or, another solution would be to consolidate the feral talents (taking OOC and natural weapons out from 11 points deep in balance would be a good start) so that druids would be free to choose between utility talents in the feral tree (such as fear/stun resistance, imp LotP, and nurturing instinct) or spec some points into restoration. These changes would essentially allow the druid to effectively change roles and not have to min-max to such an extreme.

3) Lack of Raid Utility: Leader of the Pack, Moonkin Aura, and imp faeire fire add very little to the raid, especially compared to battle shout, vampiric embrace, shadow weaving, totems, and other similar skills. In fact, it an be argued that druids bring the least cross raid utility of any class in the game. What a druid does, potentially, bring to the table is the ability to fill in emergency roles, but because of the lack lack of hybrid gear (see point 1) and hybrid talents (see point 2), shamans, paladins, and warriors make better emergency role switchers than druids do.

For instance, a dps warrior can easily pick up tanking if a tank dies by putting on a shield and going into defense stance. His mitigation and avoidance will be significantly higher than a druid who is in healing, balance, or feral dps gear who is forced to tank. At level 60, a druid in dps feral gear will probably have about 6000 armor, and 6000 health in bear form. That same druid might have 10-12k armor, 7k health, and significant dodge if he had his tanking gear on. Because druids are so gear dependant in their various roles, and their gear has no cross-role synergy, their impact as emergency role shifters is severely limited, and as such, so is their raid utility. Therefore, Druids need other skills and talents to compensate for their very limited raid utility.

--

The druid community as a whole right now is extremely discouraged. I know that Blizzard takes the wise approach with class buffs and keeps them limited and incremental. But I fear this approach will not suffice with druids. The feeling is that druids are so far behind in terms of needed adjustments, itemization, and utility that we cannot wait another two years for them to be addressed in the incremental fashion that has failed druids thus far.

The bottom line is that Druids have been drained of all confidence that they once had in Blizzard's ability or willingness to fix the class in a timely and appropriate matter. So my question is, is Blizzard concerned about this problem? Are they even AWARE of it?
#19 - Oct. 10, 2006, 1:25 a.m.
Blizzard Post
We want everyone to be happy with their class and feel as though they've made the right choice and have as many options for specialization as any other class. We don't want anyone to feel as though they are at a disadvantage, due to talents, abilities, itemization or any other aspect which could possibly affect a given player's strength. With that being said, we've been reading feedback extensively, from players of all classes and making changes based on our own testing, and that feedback. It should be noted, however, that the majority of changes from this point forward won't be seen until after beta begins. Much of the feedback we're seeing on our boards towards any element of the expansion is theory-crafted, and doesn't take the entirety of all changes into consideration.

Continue to post your feedback, and both the community team and designers will continue to read through what's constructively provided. Beyond that, just be patient -- we're dedicated to ensuring World of Warcraft provides the best possible gaming experience for everyone involved.
#255 - Oct. 10, 2006, 6:58 a.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:
I wonder, is Blizzard concerned about the fact that most Druids are miserably disappointed with their BC preview and totally pessimistic about Blizzards ability or willingness to address the core problems with the class?

Look, all the class previews are now out, and it's fair to say that the reaction (aside from Druids) has ranged from basically happy to ecstatic. I know individuals might not be content, and others are dissapointed that they didn't get more, but no class is singularly discouraged, disheartened, and de-moralized the way that druids are...


I think it's worth making a few points here.

1. We're still in the process of making some refinements/improvements to the druid talent trees.

2. When we're ready to talk more about the above, I'll also give some more information as to how we're approaching the itemization issue (I think we've made significant improvements in this respect in the xpac).

3. While we're in agreement that the balance tree (and the feral tree to a lesser extent) need continued improvement to increase the raid viability of those specs, I think it's worth pointing out that many druids in the community are pretty excited about the new core abilities.

4. This should go without saying, but we definitely care deeply about the druid class, and the druid players themselves and can say without hesitation that we very much want to see them excited/ecstatic about everything the expansion has to offer (without, of course, breaking the game in the process of doing it).
#259 - Oct. 10, 2006, 7:04 a.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:
That's great news, Kalgan. Itemization is really what it all comes back to. It's the cake. Everything else is the coffee and those stupid crumpettes off to the side that no one ever eats. What the hell are those anyway?


How would I know what those are, I don't eat them either.
#279 - Oct. 10, 2006, 7:24 a.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:


nice. I know my heart warms abit every time you guys respond. If only it would happen more often.

I have some questions

1) When do you think you will give us a glimpse at what you are planning with itemazation?

2) Would you agree that druid have a bit too many talents, and not wnough points? That is to say, alot of things in the feral tree are aweful expensive for what they do, and some things undeniable feral are in balance and restoration.

3) Could you please make moonfury scale with gear, pretty pretty please? and maybe give balance druids a silence? They need it to stand a chance vrs casters. and it would make them more viable in several enounters you have designed. (cthun eh)

5) Rework Tree of Life. While theorycraft says this is an effective talent, alot of use are afraid it will be the new innervate. required in raids, and not fun at all.

6) Answer this question: Will druids get an epic flight form? We really dont want another gimmik spell, we really are tired of being annoying and running away.

It'd be nice to stand toe to toe with a fury warrior or warlock and win(with some healing naturally)


1. Hmm, tough to quantify. From my perspective, it will definitely feel "soon" (of course, June feels like yesterday to me right now, the weeks blaze by at blinding speed at this stage of the project), but to you "soon" probably means tomorrow or the next day. So, "soon-ish"?

2. Yes, the next iteration will include some talent slimming. As far as some things that are undeniably feral that are in other trees, bear in mind that that kind of tree hybridization is exactly what a lot of you are asking for (so that spec'ing primarily in one tree doesn't gimp your hybrid capabilities).

3. We're definitely looking to make sure that there is enough gear scaling. As far as giving druids a silence, I definitely can't promise that. Druids not having easy access to interrupts is one of their defining features (much like paladins not having easy access to pulling mechanics).

4. Hmm, it appears you have no #4. So yes, I can totally commit to this one!

5. I don't know that Tree of Life needs a "rework", although that may just be a matter of semantics. I do think the move speed reduction is a bit overly restrictive right now, and we're expecting to change that in one way or another. As far as it becoming a "required" raid talent... definitely trying to avoid that (fortunately, there isn't much bang in having more than one tree on a raid).

6. Maybe, it hasn't been ruled out. Note: that doesn't mean "yes", so I don't want to hear "you promised us etc etc etc" next month. ;]