The main problem with new forms:

#0 - May 28, 2009, 6:03 a.m.

That they're tied to your hair/skin.

This has nothing to do with resources that can/can't be committed at this time. It's just horrible game design, pure and simple.

Could you imagine if you couldn't choose what color mount you wanted, but instead it was chosen for you by Blizzard depending on your hair or skin color?

This needs to be changed before they go live. It's nice that there are a variety of skins, but the horrible, horrible implementation of how you "choose" from that variety will leave the vast majority of players frustrated, and feeling as if there's no real choice at all.

I've prepared this diagram to show the point visually:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/daystar_eld/Forms.jpg

Please, please fix this Blizzard. Make it so that you enter the barbershop while in Bear/Cat and can choose your color there, for each one, independent of each other and your hair. I really love the effort you've put into the new forms, but I want to be able to fully enjoy them, and with the coming system, I will only able to enjoy 1/3 of what you offer us at a time, unless I'm very lucky.

Hell, even the glyph system was better than this.

Edit:

To clarify.

This is as if you went to the ice cream store and were told:

You can have vanilla if you have blonde hair.
You can have chocolate if you have black hair.
You can have strawberry if you have red hair.
If you don't like it, change your hair color.

While I am thankful that Blizzard made multiple form colors:
This is not "You can choose your form colors," which is what I'm arguing for.
This is "You have been assigned a form color," which I think is stupid.

The fact that we must change our hair color to change our form colors is an unnecessarily restrictive system, and I urge Blizzard to allow druids more customization.

Edit 2:

People seem to be having trouble with what do and do not constitute arguments. The following are not logical arguments.

-"Blizzard has decided this, so there's no point arguing about it."
Seriously? What do you think these forums are meant for, just venting? This same "argument" can be made about anything in the game at all. This is a dynamic game that changes constantly. There is no special, divine attribute to the status quo. Blizzard has stated time and again they value constructive criticism and feedback.

-"Why can't you just be happy with what we got?"
Because I'm not an abused housewife. This change has been four years in coming. Blizzard is the best game company in the world. We can have better. If you're happy with whatever hand life deals you, fine, but don't try to make me sound ungrateful for working to get something better for myself.

-"What does it matter what your hair color looks like? You're in forms 90% of the time anyway."
By this logic, Blizzard should stop making new graphics for our Tier sets. Why bother designing a whole new armor look for our class, when every spec of our class is going to be in forms 90% of the time anyway? People care about what their character looks like, even if they rarely get to see it. If you don't, that's fine, but there's no reason you should force your lack of preference on us, when our desired system would not limit you in any way, shape or form.

-"Why would I be able to turn into a white bear if I have green hair? That doesn't make sense."
Hello? How could you be able to turn into a bear at all? Magic! You really think it makes MORE SENSE that if you turn into a bear, at least that bear shares your hair color? It's absurd to think that a druid, with the power to turn themselves into a bear, cat, sea lion, bird, moonkin, tree, and another cat, would somehow be unable to change something as simple as their hair color. Tell me, how does the barbershop allowing you to change your fur color make any more sense? They dye your hair something different, and that dye bleeds through to your form colors? Why? It's not my natural hair. They dye your fur in both forms when they dye your hair? Couldn't I ask them to dye my forms a different color?

Edit 3:

Q u o t e:

Much in the way specific physical features (i.e. horns, eyes, facial shape, etc.) found on bear and cat forms resemble the races to which they are linked, we feel it makes sense to tie the color schemes of these forms to the most identifiable coloring options of their respective races: hair color for night elves, and skin tone for tauren.

-Zarhym

/endthread

I respectfully would ask that Blizzard reconsiders the color portion of this policy, as I find it unnecessarily restrictive to personal customization for our characters, and would like to take full advantage of the new forms you've provided us.

Thank you for your time.

Edit 4:

Since this thread seems to keep going, I'm going to add another point that many people don't seem to understand.

My character is not just a Night Elf. My character is not just a Cat. My character is not just a Bear.

He is a Night Elf, a Cat, and a Bear.

Because all three of these forms hold equal value to me, giving up my preferred hair color in one form to gain the preferred hair color in another is not giving me new choices except in the purest sense of the word. For those of us who care more about one form than the other, we'll choose the color for that form that we like and ignore the fact that we dislike the color chosen for the others by extension.

For those of us who care about their appearance ALL the time, we want to be able to take advantage of Blizzard's gift of variable options. In our opinion, it is unfair to us that those of you who like each of your forms sharing the same color get to fully enjoy this coming change, but we who care about all three of our forms looking their best are unable to fully enjoy this coming change.

With my suggestion, we would get to enjoy the change fully, and so would you, because you will not be losing anything. You will still be able to have each of your forms match colors.

Zarhym

#314 - May 28, 2009, 8:33 p.m.

Much in the way specific physical features (i.e. horns, eyes, facial shape, etc.) found on bear and cat forms resemble the races to which they are linked, we feel it makes sense to tie the color schemes of these forms to the most identifiable coloring options of their respective races: hair color for night elves, and skin tone for tauren.

Zarhym

#326 - May 28, 2009, 8:55 p.m.

Q u o t e:

/endthread

I respectfully would ask that Blizzard reconsiders the color portion of this policy, as I find it unnecessarily restrictive to personal customization for our characters, and would like to take full advantage of the new forms you've provided us.

Thank you for your time.

The feedback has certainly been noted and passed along, Daystar, as there are clearly many who share your opinion. Thanks for making an attempt at civil discourse. :)

Zarhym

#333 - May 28, 2009, 9:02 p.m.

Q u o t e:
Would there be possibility of adding even more forms in the future?

Whether you mean more color options per form, or upgrades and color options added for forms other than cat and bear, the answer is yes.

Q u o t e:
Also my main point in this post... would it be absurd to still have the new forms be tied to the barbershop, but independant of humanoid form features?

It's not absurd. It would take more programming and development time to implement such a feature, but that's not the primary reason for our choice to tie the color schemes to the hair color/skin tone of each race.

Q u o t e:
think the biggest disappointed is because people were expecting radically different forms than what is currently in place.

Trust me. The forms are radically improved. This will be even more apparent in game. There is no comparing the detail from the original form art to the new form art. Even still, a radically improved and more resolute bear with five different coloring options is still a bear. It's going to come out looking basically like bears in World of Warcraft look like.

Q u o t e:
Not only this, but skin tone for tauren isn't changeable through the barbershop. Nelves can cut their hair, but does this mean Tauren will be issued the respective forms to a skin color they picked a long time ago?

Tauren will be able to change skin tone using the barber shop when the new form art is released in the next major content patch.

Zarhym

#356 - May 28, 2009, 9:43 p.m.

Q u o t e:

Skin color is already a choice, and the information is stored about each color. Therefore all they have to add is an interface to that information in the barbershop.

Form colors aren't currently a choice, they aren't stored anywhere. Blizzard would not only have to add an interface in the barbershop, but also modify the base character record.

The two are entirely different things, just because Blizzard does one does not mean the other would take equal effort.

This is correct.

Zarhym

#401 - May 28, 2009, 10:59 p.m.

Q u o t e:

Not absurd. They are adding the choice to change our hair color and fur color with one button, but they are removing the ability to have a separate hair color and form color.

How do we remove a choice that is not currently yours to make? We are doing nothing but adding choice for druid forms in the next major content patch. You may see the choices as too limiting since they're tied to your character's physical appearance, but we're still providing an expansion of choices compared to what is currently available for druids in cat and bear form.

One is an opinion -- a perfectly valid opinion at that -- and the other is a fact.

Zarhym

#414 - May 28, 2009, 11:08 p.m.

Q u o t e:

When the change comes... Your feral forms will change based on your hair.

You can't keep your current colors. the change is forced on you and you either have to change your hair, or live with what ever bliz gives you.

What harm would come by giving US the option?

I could talk to someone about letting you keep the original art for feral forms if you feel we're forcing too much on you. ^.^

Zarhym

#422 - May 28, 2009, 11:16 p.m.

Q u o t e:

-Zarhym

I would actually opt for that.

I know you may not understand it, but I'd rather have no change than have a bad change.

You're right. I don't understand it.

Zarhym

#441 - May 28, 2009, 11:32 p.m.

Q u o t e:

Actually, that's incorrect.

Currently, we can change our hair color to whatever we want (meaning Night Elves in this case obviously), and it will not change our form colors. That "choice" isn't being lost, but it's not longer the same choice. After this patch, if we want new hair, we most likely (unless it is simply a lighter/darker shade) MUST accept a new form color too.

The issue here which many seem to miss is that there are three separate graphics:

Caster
Cat
Bear

Currently, we have choice in one of those.

Caster - 8 choices.
Cat - No choice.
Bear - No choice.

So we have 8 choices, relating to hair color.

After this patch, we DO NOT GAIN ANY ADDITIONAL CHOICE.

Caster - 8 choices.
Cat - 5 colors that coincide with that choice.
Bear - 5 colors that coincide with that choice.

We still have 8 choices. This is the problem.

We have no customization, because we're ultimately still only choosing between 8 separate options. The dimensions of that choice have changed... someone might pick green hair now, when normally they wouldn't, because they want a green cat, or a green bear. But if they want that they are GIVING UP their original hair color. This is not an additional choice, simply a new parameter to the same choice. Some don't mind this. Others do.

And those who don't mind this are not harmed by the others being given more variety.

I don't see how this pertains to my post. I argued that, rather than limiting choice in the next major content patch, we're adding choice for druid cat and bear forms. Sure, these choices are tied to the choices that already exist in the game, but it still allows druids to further customize their looks.

You may not see this as additional choice since it's tied to your hair color, allowing you only eight colorization options for caster, cat, and bear form. It's still more customization than has been offered for cat and bear forms, which is exactly how my quoted post was worded:

Q u o t e:
You may see the choices as too limiting since they're tied to your character's physical appearance, but we're still providing an expansion of choices compared to what is currently available for druids in cat and bear form.

Zarhym

#444 - May 28, 2009, 11:38 p.m.

Q u o t e:

What I was saying was incorrect was that we lose no choice. We actually do lose the choice to have a purple cat and white hair, for example.

That's not a good example. You don't know what hair colors are tied to which forms, nor have you seen the cat form changes. ;)

Q u o t e:
And again, having new parameters tied to the same choices does not mean we have more choice, just that we have new ones to make.

If I care more about ice cream flavor than toppings, I'll choose the ice cream flavor I want regardless of what toppings it has on it. If I care more about toppings than the ice cream, I'll choose the toppings I want regardless of what ice cream comes with it. But the amount of choices do not change.

You really love your analogies.

Zarhym

#477 - May 29, 2009, 12:20 a.m.

Q u o t e:
I might have missed it, but when is the patch coming out? I'd like to see all these in-game ASAP.

We typically don't provide release dates for patches. This patch will hit the test realms first.

Q u o t e:
Also, a friend of mine mentioned offhand that you guys were working on showing armor on forms in some manner or another but I haven't found a blue post supporting that. Is it true or did he just misunderstand?

It is something we think would be cool, and there has been some discussion about doing this in the past. That said, I don't have any additional information on when and how this will become a reality.

Zarhym

#483 - May 29, 2009, 12:40 a.m.

Q u o t e:
It's really not that hard to make caster form, bear form, and cat form have three separate choices, instead of all three being combined into one. Btw, is there any way we can keep our current forms as WELL as the new ones?

No. Why anyone wouldn't take any of the new form art over the current form art for cats and bears is beyond me. Regardless of preference, they're all far beyond the outdated looks that exist currently.

Zarhym

#556 - May 29, 2009, 2:06 a.m.

Q u o t e:
They should be kept tied to hair/skin color. It only makes sense that when you change into a form it would reflect your natural hair/skin color.

Stop @%!!@ing about stupid @!##.

This type of reaction to player concerns doesn't help promote civil conversation. Those on both sides of the issue need to calm down a bit.