Blizzard should retire the flightmasters

02/25/2016 06:28 PMPosted by Rubedo

Ultima Online, one of the older MMOs (2nd oldest, arguable), has a Rune and Rune book system.

You can "save" a location on a Rune. Then, you can either Recall (teleport) directly there repeatedly or cast a Portal spell on the Rune and create a portal to that location.
You can also place these Rune in a Rune book, and do the same thing.

I carried many Rune books. I made and sold many, too.

the travel system in WoW is so archaic.

I think that's what draws me to it though. The flightpath system hasn't changed too much throughout its existence, bar some improvements on the pathing of certain routes.

I personally think the kind of systems mentioned above make the world seem exceptionally tiny, and I wouldn't want to see them in WoW. From my experience in those games, I always felt that the world was constrained due to the lack of engagement I felt was necessary with the world after discovering those points, which is a huge lose of immersion for me.

One of the biggest draws for me is how big Azeroth is, and even moreso with gryphons and wyverns carrying passengers being largely ingrained in the lore.

While a minor inconvenience of a few minutes of your time to alt-tab out during a flight, to others, that experience of the adventure and exploration could be the biggest part of the game, ya know?

02/25/2016 06:35 PMPosted by Yventley

02/25/2016 06:31 PMPosted by Ornyx

While a minor inconvenience of a few minutes of your time to alt-tab out during a flight, to others, that experience of the adventure and exploration could be the biggest part of the game, ya know?

So few games these days take you out the game entirely and allow you several minutes to do absolutely nothing. I, for one, appreciate the archaic ways in which WoW refuses to evolve. Seems to be working well for them....

I guess it depends on how you look at it.

What I mean is, to some players, a flight isn't being "taken out of the game" and is, in fact, a very integral part of the WoW experience.

02/25/2016 06:37 PMPosted by Kalomonk

Oh wow a blue posted in my thread! I'm honored even though I disagree with you.

Being less of a Blue and more of a player, but hello! :)

02/25/2016 06:42 PMPosted by Rubedo

02/25/2016 06:31 PMPosted by Ornyx

I personally think the kind of systems mentioned above make the world seem exceptionally tiny

It only "seems" tiny, but the biggest difference is, to even create the rune, you have to walk there. There was no automated travel system (flightmaster), and the time spent letting the game play for you, is spent doing other fun thing in the game. Plus, once "there", you either had to hoof it back, or use another rune, especially if the rune was "mislabled, honest /whistles"...

You were playing the game more, instead of sitting on an automated system that plays the game for you.

I can agree that there might be a better way make the system engaging, but I just don't feel that something like the above ones were necessarily a good solution for Azeroth.

Perception plays a big role in immersion for many players, though, and I think an instant teleport system to nearly anywhere absolutely kills that. I enjoy the bit of effort that exists in getting around the world, and it makes it feel more alive to me - flightmasters, boats, zeppelins, etc., may seem "archaic", but WoW would feel completely different without these things to me.

There's already so many ways to get around using things like mage portals, certain class teleports, engineering gadgets, Cataclysm portals, flying mounts, etc, that the typical flight from a flightmaster is hardly noticeable these days.

02/25/2016 06:53 PMPosted by Kalomonk

How long do you expect people to be interested in the "world" though? The content Blizzard put in the open world sure didn't last for me.

In my opinion, the "world" is one of the best things about Warcraft, and always has been.

I would argue that those other games feel more engaging, because although you might arrive at the teleport zone more quickly, the lack of flying mounts makes the zone feel bigger once you arrive. FF14 does have limited flying in some zones, and I'm not sure if Rift ever implemented flying but they too use the teleport system.

The runebook system from Ultima Online was super amazing. I used to love picking up random runes with oddball descriptions and seeing where the hell it sent me. There are so many great things from that game that have not been replicated since. However, I'm not sure wow fun it would be in today's world. Back in the late 90's I thought it was super cool that I was playing a game, through the internet, fighting monsters, with other people who might not live anywhere near me. That alone was enough of a wow factor! Now adays, we as consumers expact more, and I feel like that is part of the perceived problem with World of Warcraft. Just being online adventuring isn't enough anymore, and the amount of MMO competition has exploded! One of my favorite games is Cryptic's Champions Online which is technically in the superhero genre even though I usually make Fantasy themed characters. The leve; of customization, both visual and ability based, is staggering in that game. I could make a cyborg warlock elf who can summon demons & robots, heal, and fly around on a magic rainbow cloud in that game.

Even though that particular MMO doesn't seem super successful, porb ably due to being stuck in the Super Hero Genre, I really believe if that level of customization was adapted to a High Fantasy setting it could be wildly successful. Also, Champions Online has always suffered from a lack of engaging endgame content - or at least it did back during its 2009 launch.

Edit: I went off on a tangent, sorry.

TL;DR A teleport to zone system has less effect on making the world feel small and insignificant than flying does.

Also, the Garrison system was poisonous to the world as well. I liked the garrison, I really did, but I feel like more needs to be done to get people out in the world! tanaan was semi-ok but once flying became possible you guys basically ruined everything. I even enjoy flying! Which irks the hell out of me because I also agree that it makes the world feel !@#$ty! /endrant

I can see where you are coming from, and that's 100% an acceptable point of view. I think it's good to add that these are my own thoughts here, not necessarily how anyone on the development team views flightmasters. I also think your tangent was more on point than what came after it. ;P

Anyways... Some people don't care about travelling around the world and such, and I think WoW does a good job giving those people options to save them some time. I do think, though, that there is more than one type of player that we think about in a situation like this. Those of you who want to get places faster have the means to do so through various mechanics such as mage portals and trinkets/tabards/etc, and those players who want to be immersed can do so as well by walking or flying.

When I refer to the "experience", I'm thinking more of flightmasters in Azeroth itself (not necessarily in Draenor), where the longest flight you would be taking would be from a zone back to the nearest capital such as The Barrens to Orgrimmar or Westfall to Stormwind, which hardly seems like something I would consider a chore. I find it a good time to enjoy things such as the art and the music which make WoW what it is. Again, some players may not want to experience these things like this, and, as said, there are options available that cut down any kind of travel time dramatically.

I think that's the point where we disagree, though. :) I find that because Azeroth is mostly seamless, save continent swamps and instances, it would be more detrimental to the feeling of the world to chop it up with load screens more than it already is. A large chunk of the other titles mentioned already have a loading screen at the edge of every zone, which would affect my personal immersion.

This is just what is coming to mind, so I'm not 100% if this made enough sense so that you can follow. :P

02/25/2016 08:30 PMPosted by Blakebone

Idk about the whole immersion argument. Whenever I go on a fp is just tab out.

Every

SIngle

Time

I mean Im sure some people out there will watch avidly the whole thing with the passion of a young britney spears but to me FP is just a loading screen.

I think that's just one way to look at it, so don't get me wrong. There is a whole forum full of those "Britney Spears'" who love the story and immersion of the world, after all. :)

Because they don't want work to follow them around and spam them endlessly during their leisure time.

Huh? We'd have no idea they were a blue. They'd come in as any other player and voice their opinion like the rest of us.

When I said that, I meant that I wanted to share my personal opinion, more so, and less of an official Blizzard stance. Engaging and talking with you guys is something we like to do, but it doesn't always have to mean that we are making a philosophical statement that the entire company is behind.

Edit: Excuse the wall of quote