Timewalking

04/16/2015 03:08 AMPosted by Sklc

Isn't timewalking just continued rehashing of old content and calling it new? Call me crazy, but I feel like Blizzard could have made new dungeons to release in 6.2.

We're not all that concerned about how you want to label content after seeing it laid out on paper. There are people out there who are quick to claim that we're pretending "old content" is once again "new content." It's not about old and new. It's about giving players more options and new ways to experience content in World of Warcraft, even if that means creating new systems to experience existing content in different ways.

The common argument, it seems, is that we try to cut corners by "rehashing old content" in order to avoid creating new content. This is a misnomer. Configuring a game system that allows players to experience the dungeons from Wrath of the Lich King and The Burning Crusade at max level, and be appropriately rewarded for it, isn't comparable to designing a new dungeon, especially in terms of art resources -- of which plenty were used to develop Patch 6.2 content.

Timewalking is a new feature. It allows you to access existing content in new and relevant ways. We've not claimed otherwise. If you want to throw a negative label on it, that's up to you. But don't claim that we're pretending this sufficiently absolves us from having to create "new content."

Timewalking also shouldn't give players license to dismiss the actual new content in Tanaan and Hellfire. It's an added feature that we're confident many players will enjoy, as it has the simple goal of providing max-level players with more things to do.

TLDR: It's not very useful to put so much effort into bickering cynically about what content is old or new, and how we're framing that in our patch features list. It'd be a lot more constructive to talk about whether or not new features -- even those that involve existing content -- are fun.

04/17/2015 12:45 PMPosted by Piñata

04/17/2015 12:35 PMPosted by Zarhym

We're not all that concerned about how you want to label content after seeing it laid out on paper.

I think they're more concerned with losing raid tiers because you were working on something that wasn't a raid tier.

Which I did address in my post, and is a bizarre argument to make over a patch that includes a large new raid tier.

04/17/2015 01:02 PMPosted by Naffro

Timewalking was your idea, wasn't it?

No! But it's something we've wanted to do for some time now. And I'm looking forward to it. :)

04/17/2015 01:21 PMPosted by Mizterdots

Hey Zar, if you have the time to answer another timewalker question, I'd like to know if the heroics will actually pose a challenge. I just don't want to feel like I'm running say Utgrade Keep and flying past it like I'm in full t10.

We don't want them to be intensely challenging, but we don't want them to be faceroll either. We're in the process of testing the item level to which level-100 players should be scaled down. We're erring on the side of scaling item levels a little lower than they probably would be if one was running these dungeons at their actual level, but that's mostly to try and compensate for the fact that level-100 characters will have extra abilities and talents that they wouldn't at the lower levels, which will be advantageous in some situations.

04/17/2015 01:18 PMPosted by Vessabence

It does make me curious though, since we would be going back to these dungeons with our current level 100 skill set, is there potential for one or two new mechanics for certain bosses in these dungeons?

As it stands now, no. We're not planning to add new mechanics or creatures. These are literally the existing Heroic versions of the 10 selected dungeons with players' item levels scaled down as I described above.

04/17/2015 04:12 PMPosted by Rubedo

04/17/2015 04:09 PMPosted by Zarhym

As it stands now, no. We're not planning to add new mechanics or creatures. These are literally the existing Heroic versions of the 10 selected dungeons with players' item levels scaled down as I described above.

Will you guys Timewarp these dungeons for every expansion that will be release from now until the end of the World (of Warcraft), or is this a feature for WoD only?

We don't have specific plans to share as of yet. I think it's safe to say that we'd like for this feature to receive updates and be carried onward into the future of WoW, but we'll see how things play out in 6.2. :)

04/17/2015 04:18 PMPosted by Whitehead

04/17/2015 04:09 PMPosted by Zarhym

We're in the process of testing the item level to which level-100 players should be scaled down. We're erring on the side of scaling item levels a little lower than they probably would be if one was running these dungeons at their actual level, but that's mostly to try and compensate for the fact that level-100 characters will have extra abilities and talents that they wouldn't at the lower levels, which will be advantageous in some situations.

Why not scale back the talents and abilities? So if you are playing at level 70, you have only the talents and abilities you would have at level 70?

That's not something we want to do. It can be weird and jarring for us to essentially de-level your character's abilities and talents for a specific type of content. We want entering these dungeons at level 100 to feel relatively seamless, aside from a little math under the hood changing your power relative to the content you're running.

04/17/2015 07:09 PMPosted by Imoen

I have two questions:

Okay! :)

04/17/2015 07:09 PMPosted by Imoen

1: When tuning these timewalker dungeons, are you also taking into account that they're already faceroll when you're doing them while leveling even right now? Seriously, have you tried running Arcatraz at its intended level? Bosses usually die in 10 seconds or less. I don't want that to be the kind of experience you get with timewalking.

The item squish and other class changes over the years certainly have had an adverse effect on old dungeons.

Our QA team is in the process of playing through the Timewalking versions and we look forward to PTR feedback as well. What we'll likely do is continue to adjust the item leveling scaling until we feel that the dungeons are appropriately tuned. We'll also be looking out for any strange outliers in mechanics and such.

04/17/2015 07:09 PMPosted by Imoen

2: Is there any chance this feature could be expanded to raids? Most of the raids before WotLK saw very little of the player population doing them because of the number of geared players required was too high for normal people. I'm personally hoping for Ahn'qiraj and Sunwell Plateau to be brought back somehow, even if only briefly.

This is still to be determined, but there are no plans for Timewalking raids in Patch 6.2. 5-player dungeons serve a significantly different purpose than do raids, and so we'd want to make sure we're not interfering with, or otherwise negatively affecting, Normal/Heroic/Mythic raid progression by adding an extra layer of "legacy" tiers.

We definitely want to focus on getting this introduction of Timewalking with TBC/Wrath dungeons in 6.2 right first, before we consider expanding it to include additional dungeons, or especially raids.

04/17/2015 07:23 PMPosted by Moradìm

04/17/2015 12:35 PMPosted by Zarhym

We're not all that concerned about how you want to label content after seeing it laid out on paper. There are people out there who are quick to claim that we're pretending "old content" is once again "new content." It's not about old and new. It's about giving players more options and new ways to experience content in World of Warcraft, even if that means creating new systems to experience existing content in different ways.

fair enough, but what happened to making new content? in the past, we would get a set of dungeons along with a new patch or raid tier: like ICC or DS. cant new dungeons be made, rather than recycling old ones? I like doing old content but it's still not bringing anything new to the table.

One of my points in my original post is that this isn't an either/or scenario. Creating a Timewalking system is entirely different from creating new 5-player dungeons, particularly in terms of artist resources.

We love 5-player dungeons too. But they're also difficult to introduce in patches, as they take quite a lot of time to develop relative to their lifespan as relevant content, even when compared to new raid dungeons, which require weeks or months of progression for the average guild. Most players run through 5-player dungeons a small handful of times to get whatever upgrades are available and then move on.

This is, in part, why we're introducing Mythic difficulty for 5-player dungeons in Patch 6.2. Most players feel a content gap between world content and raid content once they've run through the Heroic 5-player dungeons, and we feel that a Mythic difficulty (in addition to the introduction of Timewalking dungeons) will give players more progression options in small group content further into the lifespan of an expansion.

At the same time, this frees up our artists more to create the creatures and environments needed for future content, which aids us in our efforts to reduce the gaps in between content updates.

04/17/2015 07:51 PMPosted by Whitehead

@Zarhym - are the time walker dungeons being designed just for level 100 characters, or is the intent for the level 100 people to group with people leveling up through the content now? So e.g. Level 100s would join groups with characters level 70 for BC dungeons, etc?

The intent is to group together anyone queuing for Timewalking when available. So, level-70 characters will be matched with level-100 characters for TBC Timewalking dungeons, for instance.

04/17/2015 07:46 PMPosted by Soobell

It is nearing 8PM PST right now and Zarhym is answering more questions than I have seen any other Blue answer as of late.

Thank you thank you thank youuuuu! All of this insight you are providing is so refreshing!!

I appreciate the kind words! I do need to get my weekend started here shortly though. ;)