Regional FlagHeirloom Vendor Change in Patch 6.0.2Source
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#1 - 2014/09/16 04:59:00 PM
With the upcoming release of Patch 6.0.2, we’ll be sending the vendors who sell Heirlooms for Justice Points on a nice vacation.

As you might already be aware, both Justice and Valor Points are being removed as currencies from the game in 6.0.2. As we started to work on new ways to buy Heirlooms, we found that we were setting their value up for a rollercoaster ride. That's because we’re also working on a larger Heirloom system for a future patch, and we don’t want to introduce an interim pricing scheme that could temporarily devalue Heirlooms or limit how we’d be able to give them out in the future. Rather than make players face buyer’s remorse and hand-wringing decisions about when to buy, we’re going to give the Justice Heirloom vendors some time off while we work on improving the system as a whole.

One thing to note is that this change only affects vendors that sell Heirlooms for Justice. PvE Heirlooms will still remain available at the Darkmoon Faire and the Trial of the Crusader, and PvP Heirlooms will continue to be available for Honor.

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#5 - 2014/09/16 05:07:00 PM
09/16/2014 10:05 AMPosted by Eedroh
I really didn't want to spend the last bit of time in this xpac grinding out JP :(


Don't do anything you don't want to do. :) But also, as stated, they're still available at the Darkmoon Faire and Trial of the Crusader.

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#9 - 2014/09/16 05:20:00 PM
09/16/2014 10:16 AMPosted by Killercaitie
09/16/2014 09:59 AMPosted by Bashiok
we’ll be sending the vendors who sell Heirlooms for Justice Points on a nice vacation.


You're sending them to the glue factory, aren't you?


No no no no... nooooooooo... They're going to a nice farm upstate where they can ruuuuuun, and frolic, and play with other NPCs, aaaaaand... Yes. Yes we're cooking them down for glue.

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#11 - 2014/09/16 05:22:00 PM
09/16/2014 10:20 AMPosted by Shamenz
09/16/2014 10:07 AMPosted by Bashiok
...

Don't do anything you don't want to do. :) But also, as stated, they're still available at the Darkmoon Faire and Trial of the Crusader.


Yay! Another blatantly ridiculous situation created by people who don't understand how to properly develop a game!

First we were getting the BoA tab.

Then you guys decided to 'delay' it until further notice because you don't understand how !@#$%^- important of a feature it was.

Next you tell us that we'll be able to purchase JP BoAs for gold (which is amazing!).

Now you're telling us that won't be happening because of arbitrary decision making by people who obviously don't play game?

I got a better idea. Why don't you just implement the BoA tab for 6.0 like you originally said you were going to do.

And leave the JP BoA vendor as it is on the PTR.

Otherwise, all you're doing is making a bad situation worse.


Woah, take it down like ... 12 to 14 notches. Everything's going to be fine.

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#27 - 2014/09/16 05:47:00 PM
09/16/2014 10:34 AMPosted by Bretherezen
Just put them up for purchase for Gold instead... Why the heck do they have to be eliminated entirely for X duration?


Because that would alter their valuation. Is it better to go get them now, wait for them to be purchasable with gold, or wait for some future system based on you-don't-know-what? How pleased will you be if you bet on the wrong one? When we do have a future system are we then bound to constraints we've made for ourselves by making them purchasable with gold or otherwise? We'd just rather that not be a corner we paint ourselves into, and make you potentially pay for it.

Heirlooms have been available for 6 years, there's been plenty of time to obtain them. They're just taking a short break from being obtainable by Justice right now until we implement a more holistic system in a future patch.

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#379 - 2014/10/08 11:30:00 PM
10/08/2014 05:08 AMPosted by Alphaomegax
What i dont understand is why are yall not listing to the players? Your play count is going down and down every quarter. Iam a new player (less then 2 weeks in) i have been wanting to play for awhile now. Now i find out that the heirlooms well be hard to get even if you can get them makes me upset. I know heirlooms are a easy way to help boost exp when leveling. Explain to me why the new people and others who haven't got them have to do with out.


Heirlooms are not really for new players. They're generally obtainable at max-level with max-level currencies and through max-level content. Their intent is to help veteran players level new characters faster, and are not intended as boosts for people completely new to the game.

The heirlooms are still available, and will continue to be available, despite this single source being on a temporary hiatus. As for explaining to you why we're doing this, I would refer you to the first post in this thread announcing the change. If you have any followup questions though feel free.

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#381 - 2014/10/08 11:47:00 PM
10/08/2014 04:39 PMPosted by Anubis
But buyer beware and all that. You could equip players with the knowledge that "Hey, value will be fluxuating, purchase or don't purchase at your own risk" and then let the players sink or swim on their own...especially since everyone's indifference curve as to what's more valuable than what is going to be unique.


That probably seems fair, but I can assure you the people who are upset now about them not being available for a short time would pale in comparison to everyone furious that they wasted time/gold making a wrong decision we allowed them to make. You of course could say they deserve it they made a choice knowing it could change, but that doesn't make it a good experience.

And, again, they're coming back in a better system, and until then they're still available, and also I know it doesn't necessarily feel like it because they've been around a while, but they are a bonus. Aaaaaaaand I now expect everyone to spit on me for suggesting they could actually level without heirlooms if they wanted to.

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#389 - 2014/10/09 12:26:00 AM
10/08/2014 05:17 PMPosted by Aehl
Bashiok

May we please have an answer for this

Since JP is being removed as a currency, will the old legacy transmogs, mounts, etc be unavailable after 6.0? What about the reps one can also buy from the legacy vendors?


What happens to the legacy heirlooms for jp that are used for transmog?


In general anything available for Justice will be able to purchased with gold, except in cases where other systems are impacted, such as reputations (the Wrath of the Lich King rep Commendations are going away entirely), or in the case of Heirlooms, a future system that will impact their interim valuation.

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#393 - 2014/10/09 12:30:00 AM
10/08/2014 05:25 PMPosted by Lunavale
10/08/2014 04:47 PMPosted by Bashiok
That probably seems fair, but I can assure you the people who are upset now about them not being available for a short time would pale in comparison to everyone furious that they wasted time/gold making a wrong decision we allowed them to make.

So the only thing people would get 'furious' about(and boy is furious a strong word) is if you guys are drastically lowering the price of the heirlooms/making them incredibly more available such that the time spent obtaining them now would be "wasted".

Considering that they are currently very cheap, easy to get, and the currency hardly even competes with anything else I would assume this is not what's going to happen. (And if this is what's going to happen it's seriously a non-issue)

That suggests that the prices are going to be raised relative to where it's at now, and they will be harder to obtain...Which I don't really have a problem with if that's what you're doing, but that is not what you're saying you are doing. In fact people would get 'furious' that you didn't warn them they would be harder to obtain, and thus should be bought now while they're cheap.

....Basically what I'm trying to get across is there is a definite lack of logic here. Either that or you're outright lying to our faces.


Not a lack of logic, it's a lack of knowing. We haven't worked on the new system a whole lot yet, and we don't know exactly how the game will exist post-launch and what decisions will necessarily be the correct ones a couple months from now.

I agree with you though, they are pretty easy to get right now, and if you want them now or in the near future then my recommendation would be to go them right now, pretty easily. We don't know what requirements they'll have in the future, easier or harder, and it's not very fair to ask you to bet on guessing which one it'll be.

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#396 - 2014/10/09 12:33:00 AM
10/08/2014 05:28 PMPosted by Cirno
10/08/2014 05:26 PMPosted by Bashiok
In general anything available for Justice will be able to purchased with gold, except in cases where other systems are impacted, such as reputations (the Wrath of the Lich King rep Commendations are going away entirely), or in the case of Heirlooms, a future system that will impact their interim valuation.


The WotLK reps are so antiquated though, what does it hurt to leave in the commendations? If it were current stuff, I'd understand, but half-decade old reps?

Seems a bit odd to me.


There are people who still don't have them who would happily cap those reps by avoiding the gameplay associated with them and spending gold, and in-turn players who got those reps through gameplay who may not be super pumped they're far less valuable. It's not like an earth shattering situation like if everyone could buy those reps with gold it'd tear at the fabric of space time, but on that same side of the coin, if they're old and antiquated reps that don't really matter any more, then there's not really any reason to remove all of that gameplay and make them much easier to get either.

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#490 - 2014/10/12 06:42:00 PM
10/12/2014 10:07 AMPosted by Darkfur
theres this situation where people probably have just started playing WoW again or are new to wow and they like to catch up on things during the game, i bet you dont take too many breaks from wow seing how far you went into that post of yours.


If they're new to the game they wouldn't be able to purchase heirlooms until they're already leveled. If they're returning, again, they may be lvl 80 or 85 and they're probably not going to be buying any (especially because they won't provide them much if any benefit at that level) unless they do have 90's but are returning to just level alts--which seems super specific. I'm still unsure of in what scenario new players or people returning to the game are specifically and unfairly being affected by this.

Which is of course not bringing up, again, heirlooms will still be available from other vendors for different currencies. Or that, if you want to right now, you could pretty easily grind out the JP needed to buy any heirlooms you want in the next couple days before 6.0.2.

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#493 - 2014/10/12 06:53:00 PM
10/12/2014 11:47 AMPosted by Huggywuggles
How long have you guys been working on WoD already? How long have you known all of this was going to change? How bad do you think it looks that a month prior to the release you STILL haven't figured this out.


An account wide heirloom system wasn't as high a priority as other changes and content. Features and content are routinely delayed or cut from expansions as we work on them and priorities and design ideas and philosophies change. It's how we've always worked. Making a game is more of an art than a science, and we think it works better when there can be a personal touch and influence on the game design and direction, and not a rigid schedule to adhere to.

Anyway, to answer your question, we were in the process of changing the heirlooms to cost gold and thought "wait a minute, this is going to maybe suck if the new system changes the valuation considerably". So, specifically, maybe a day before the original post?

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#497 - 2014/10/12 07:09:00 PM
10/12/2014 11:57 AMPosted by Huggywuggles
10/12/2014 11:53 AMPosted by Bashiok
Anyway, to answer your question, we were in the process of changing the heirlooms to cost gold and thought "wait a minute, this is going to maybe suck if the new system changes the valuation considerably". So, specifically, maybe a day before the original post?


Fair enough.

But again, help me understand. Why did this not come across during meetings about it when you had them? Maybe we're not privy to the knowledge, but the, "Well, we didn't realize it would be all screwy until just a short time ago!" thing...honestly, it puts a REALLY bad taste in my mouth, personally speaking.

Don't get me wrong.

I understand more than most prioritizing things. However, if a change is coming down the pike, do you not first examine ALL options thoroughly before deciding on what will work best? This reeks of throwing stuff at a wall and seeing what sticks, man.


Mmmm, not sure if I can answer satisfactorily as this seems to be a judgment of our working processes, which I'm not sure necessarily can or should be justified. If we do something you don't like, tell us why, I don't know that trying to ensure our producers are using "Agile" is super helpful. But anyway, things change, and they can change at any step. Obviously in meetings where designs are discussed, things change thousands or times in little or substantial ways. They can also change during testing, or as we approach a milestone, or at 2am when a designer wakes up in a cold sweat screaming "OH NO!", or during implementation, or a billion other small ways. You're perceiving change as a weakness, when in reality our ability to change and adapt to new conditions or thoughts or ideas, is a major strength.

It seems like you're wanting to shame us for not being able to see the future, or for prioritizing tasks properly (in the scheme of a new expansion, what old heirlooms will sell for is not super high up there), which seems odd and unfair.

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#498 - 2014/10/12 07:11:00 PM
10/12/2014 12:02 PMPosted by Rowner
"wait a minute, this is going to maybe suck if the new system changes the valuation considerably


I'm starting to agree with all the claims about pushing the paid 90 boost. That's the only thing that makes sense.


*grumble* Except everyone gets a boost included with Warlords and also heirlooms are still purchasable with other currencies. If the intent is to propose what-if scenarios as real problems, I'll discuss them all day, but please don't bring conspiracy theories in. There's no logic to what you're proposing.

10/12/2014 12:02 PMPosted by Rowner
Why is this even a concern? You've placed a monetary value on Justice Points. You've placed a gold value on the guild heirlooms. This is just repeating a bad excuse for a last minute change. One that doesn't even influence the gameplay in the new expansion. It's a convenience item for "veteran" players.


There's no monetary value on JP. We're offering a payout for time spent as the currency is being removed so people aren't sad for having JP they didn't spend. It's a nice thing to do. It is not a literal valuation of time spent. And there just isn't a parity with the guild heirlooms. Just because both items are heirlooms doesn't mean they should both suddenly be obtainable the same way through the same systems.

I do indeed understand some people would love for heirlooms to be purchasable with gold.

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#502 - 2014/10/12 07:24:00 PM
10/12/2014 12:18 PMPosted by Huggywuggles
Again, maybe you did this. I don't know. But it surely seems to me that you (Blizzard) just took the path of least resistance and hoped for the best without really THINKING about it and have inconvenienced MANY players with nothing more than, "Oopsie daisy!".


I think it was more along the lines of, ok we're removing Valor and Justice Points, this is a change that affects dozens of systems, thousands of items, millions of players, let's discuss the key impacts, but it's going to take months for designers to work through how each should be resolved in each system, for each player, let alone implement, test, bug fix, reimplement, test, bug fix, etc. etc. and it would be nonsensical for us to sit and discuss each minutiae of the change for old currencies instead of doing work to make an awesome expansion.