Regional Flag[PvE guide] advanced combat rogue-ing [5.4]Source
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#1 - 2014/04/06 12:11:00 PM


This guide will assume you've already read the standard guide on and that you have some experience of rogues. Some of the rotation advice also assumes you're using assurance of consequence.
Nothing here is set in stone, if you see flaws in my guide and can prove them, I will edit it.

Stat values.

Hastery-mastery-crit is almost always true, however shadowcraft might tell you that crit becomes more valueable than mastery when you've reached high mastery numbers.

This is true in a patchwerk fight but it is NOT true whenever there's is aoe/cleave.

Theoretical dps.

This can not be done with shadowcraft unless you have a great knowledge of it and you are able to change the formula. As it is now shadowcraft is only useful to comparing stat values for the common layman.

Simcraft at standard setup is as close you are going to get if you want realistic dps numbers, altering simcraft to your real rotation will give you even more accurate numbers.

Chosing a slow or fast offhand.

In most cases you can take shadowcraft's word for it when chosing a slow or fast offhand, but there are some exceptions.

If blade flurry coupled with killing spree is to do more damage than normally in a fight, slow offhands will become better.

Kor'kron dark shamans for example, on the pull you will most likely recieve every buff possible + both your trinket procs on 4 targets. But those targets only last for half a minute, after that the fight becomes single target.

Your blade flurry damage coupled with killing spree during that first half minute is going to be abnormally high compared to the rest of your abilities for the rest of the fight.

Your slow offhand increases your killing spree damage/auto attack damage per time by quite a fair amount, this naturally means that it matters more on a fight like dark shamans than on a patchwerk fight because the percentage of damage coming from your blade flurry coupled will be alot higher than it would on a patchwerk fight.

This all means that on kor'kron dark shamans and garrosh hellscream and possibly malkorok, you can not trust shadowcraft's values when it comes to slow offhands vs quick because slow offhands will slightly rise in dps value.

Now there could be some fight I haven't considerd but getting the prinsciple of it is enough.

Ofcourse all this doesn't matter very much for the succes of your raid, because single target dps is usually what will work best during progress, but if you want to reach maxium dps this is something to consider.



The most optimal opener but impractical one is to use 3 ss or rvs with no insight on the trashpacks before a boss, this way you will get shallow insight from just one ss or rvs.

The opener after that should look like this: ambush-ss-snd-ks-ar+sb.

You can also use marked for death on the boss to get 5 cps on the pull, aslong as the boss is pulled after the marked for death cd is reset. Sequence for this is. (Reason I use snd 5 sec before the pull is if somone ninja pulls and you end up stuck with mfd for the rest of the fight.).

1. >60 seconds to pull, cast marked for death.
2. around 5 seconds before pull use snd (but don't target the boss when you cast slice and dice because this pulls it.
3. after you've used snd switch to anticipation talent.

The standard opener most rogues use is ambush-rvs-ss-snd-ss-ss-ks-ar+sb...

The point of this is to get to your first insight level before using killing spree. You will also benefit with killing spree from your first 10 second trinket proc. I advise against this opener if you are using blade flurry on the pull, I'd just use the second opener in these situations. I also advise against this opener on malkorok because of how well ks usually lines up with add spawns on that fight in heroic, using this opener which slightly delays ks can screw you over when it comes to timing. I also advice against it if you for some reason find yourself lacking energy, if you can't get in your killing spree during your first 10 second trinket proc then this opener will not be good, this can happen in lower ilvls without hero on pull.

There's another more unconvential opener which might be optimal even on ST. I actually use this for most fights because of pull lag, so if that's a problem for you this opener is definitely something to consider. Not to mention that the opener is very hard to get wrong.


Personally I use ambush-snd-ks-ar+sb-rvs on all bosses except thok (due to it taking a few seconds to posistion the boss means delaying ks untill you are posistioned within you group works very well). I also use the first opener option on spoils of pandaria because we first open one box and drag two mobs together after about 5 sec and I then ks, so the first opener works very well for the timing here.

Tricks of the trade.

This ability is generally best spent on your highest dps (not pet classes). Trix is not on the global cooldown so keep in mind that you can macro this to another ability so that you won't need think about this ability at all, it just becomes automated and having one less ability to keep track off will increase most people's perfomance and will probably lead to better trix management simply by never accidentally delaying it which in turn causes less tricks of the trade to be used during the course of the fight. Tricks on demand for high burst damage is probably not a gain if you consider these two things: possibly less trix used in total during the fight + you will have to keep track off extra temporary buffs and trix cooldown, we're not robots and you can't just theorize about the mathemathical gain if it's not realistic.

To rupture or not to rupture.

Rupture is a slight dps gain over eviscerate if:

Rupture will run it's full duration.
You rupture after it has dropped.
You are not using blade flurry.

Slice and dice usage.

Slice and dice is prefferably used with 5 cps but if it's about to drop you should use it with whatever cp you have available. Prioritizing rupture or eviscerate over a 5 cp slice and dice because of trinket procs red insight may or may not be a dps gain, but simulations prefer a 5cp snd cycle but it might not account for singulated situations like procs + deep insight etc.

Best general advice about slice and dice is to not worry to much regarding how many cps you use it at aslong as you keep near 100% uptime.

There are however exceptions to using slice and dice with 5 cps. If you get a trinket proc and using a eviscerate or rupture to get a cooldown ready quicker with restless blades then it is worth it to use a 1 cp slice and dice.

Cooldown usage.

Every other ar+sb cycle you want to be able to use 2 ks between them.


The way this works is: ks during ar+sb > ks outside of ar+sb > ks during ar.

You don't want to stack them for a dps gain like on pull but rather think of it as a way to reduce restless blades wasteage as much as possible. Basically if ks comes off cooldown during ar+sb you pop it, if it comes off cooldown on only ar you delay it while building combo points and if ks + ar + sb comes off cooldown at the same time you should pop ks first and then ar+sb.

Now if ks comes off cooldown after sb there is a trick to get around that. When you're nearing 4 seconds left on ar you want to stop using finishers and instead start pooling to probably max 7 or 8. (so if you are at 5-4 seconds left on ar you want to use a finisher if you are at 5 cps and then start building) and then use killing spree, this sometimes means you have to cut ar with ks by a sec or half a sec, and this might sound counter intiutive seeing as you will either lose energy or a 20% chance that you will waste a cp (at 8) but it comes at the gain of not wasting restless blades and not wasting several cps instead during ar.

There are fights with appearing adds where you might get slightly better results if you deviate from the standard cd usage rotation and instead delay ks to use together with blade flurry, but only for a few seconds, waiting more than 10 seconds quite a stretch, and I wouldn't delay ar+sb (the only exception is thok where delaying ar+sb is beneficial, around 160% increased damage during ar+sb with blade flurry means that it's actually worth to lose a cd here to be able to use on the adds)

But this is more a question of, do you value adds dieing really quickly or do you value more boss dps. For a fight like malkorok hc during progress those adds can be a pain, and it might be beneficial to your raid if you do delay killing spree to get them down quickly.


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#39 - 2014/06/06 03:33:00 PM
Well done Fatjimmy!