Regional FlagRetribution Paladin PVP RecommendationsSource
Target Source
#1 - 2014/03/13 07:30:00 PM
*****Before WoD in S15. Solutions are Post #2 in this thread.

As one of the few rets who broke 2.2k last season in 3s and 5s, and is above 2k this season without taking advantage of the first day mmr bug, I can say with confidence that ret is lacking in some regard. Its not just me who feels this way either, its other top end players of other classes. We all recognize something is wrong, but the main problem is identifying WHY ret is not playing up to par, when in theory, it should not seem to be doing so badly.

As I have played ret now this expansion for thousands of arena games, ive come to the conclusion that ret is indeed lacking, but not in the traditional damage sense, or straight up defensive sense as usual, which is what is complicating the dynamics of why ret only has 1 really viable comp this season and last, and muddying the issue. Im going to name some issues that probably have not ever been mentioned before on the forums that I think, if they would be looked at, would make a huge difference for the class. Here goes..

GCD locking: One thing ive learned playing a ret paladin is that they have ALOT of utility spells, all of which are really strong, and honesty flavor the spec very well. Wehave magic dispelling sacs, bops to peel/remove physical cc, freedoms, offheals from hell for teammates,etc, but at the same time, NONE of those abilities are OFF of the GCD. This normally would not be too much of an issue when general burst of dps is low, and CC is too high, but it alternatively effects ret more, since damage and CC come in faster than anything we can do to remove it. The simple fact that a ret can die from 50% to 0 in a matter of a simple 1.5 second global where he cant dispel that polymorph off his healer is a perfect example of what im talking about. This also has the effect of lowering our overall damage, which, even though our damage isnt necessarily bad, means overall we just do less damage because we are so easy to peel in this way. God forbid I use templar's verdict when im at 50% when my healer just got PoM Polyed, now im dead if I dont have bubble.... This brings us to our next issue.

Survivability: Now its no surprise that ret is suffering on the survivability front, which, unlock other rets, I agree with vanguards is not as much of a big deal as others are making. Thats not to say we are NOT one of the squishiest specs in the game atm. WE ARE. But every spec should have strengths, and weaknesses. Im fine with survivability lacking as our weakness, but the fact that it is so low, ON TOP OF the easy ability burst down things right now, on top of GCD locking our utility, and the ability to easily CC us into the ground. That brings us to the next issue.

Offensive Utility: Grips, extreme amounts of CC, incredible dots, or an insane amount of CC breaks. That sums up pretty much what offensive utility is. Ferals, Affl Locks, Warriors, they have dots. Rogues have cloak of shadows, shamans have tremor totem and stormlash, warriors have zerk rage, DKs have an ungodly (lol) number of CC outs. Our dots, other than exe sentence, are weak. We are too prone to fears due to no insta gap closer, and we have no CC breaks other than bubble, and unless you know for sure your about to get a kill, is pretty much a death sentence to use to break a CC. And finally, our lackluster CC, which is the next topic.

CC, and Interruptability: Ive actually found ret is capable of some really strong CC, so I actually dont fully agree with ret NOT having CC available, as much as it not being a viable choice to take the CC as the cost outweighs the benefit heavily as a ret. What I mean is, ret, in their CC talent tier, is pigeon holed into taking Fist of Justice, due to the way the holy tree, pushback works for rets. Unlike holy paladins, retribution has NO pushback protection at all. This means that even if you juke kicks as ret to get off your Turn Evil, or Repentance talents, it still can take well over 3 seconds to get the cast off. That is MORE then enough time to charge stun, pushback, or simply LOS the cast, or even Shadow Word: Death the rep.... As a ret that was R1 ret in s13 in 2s for weeks on end, and also in s14, I felt running Ret/healer only worked if I did take one of those 2 casted CCs, but in the process I gave up ALOOOTTT of damage in order to have to cast for over 3 seconds to get it off, on top of the fact that now I have to catch up to my moving target, which will take even more time to get up optimal damage again...
A side note on this as well, It is too risky to get interrupted as ret, as ALLLLL of our defenses, utility, and heals are all bound to the holy tree. Getting interrupted means you cant even bubble or wall, and your easily one shot in that situation. Continued in the next post....

Blue Poster
Target Source
#315 - 2014/03/24 09:14:00 PM
Hey guys,

I don't mind the intense discussion but the sniping at other posters needs to stop. Feel free to make your points, but avoid insulting other players while doing so.