An idea about flying. - Blue Tracker

#1 - Nov. 13, 2013, 11:39 p.m.

Edit: Wow, three blue posts in a thread I started, never had that happen before! (to me anyway). That pretty much trivializes everything in this post I've started and taken it oh so much further out of my ability to read. I mean, 19 hours ago I made this original post, and now the topic's 39 pages LONG! OMG!!! Anywho, I'll leave the original content of this message for refference purposes, but otherwise, Bashiok and Nethaera have already answered all the questions about flying in WoD. Just follow the blue post link at the top!

From what I've been reading, there's a lot of back and forth about whether or not flying should be permitted in WoD. Here's what I've gotten from both sides so far:

For flying:
Saves time and makes the game more enjoyable for those whom have more than one toon to level through the content.
The artwork is nice and all, but it can get repetitive after a while, when you have to go through the same path more and more.

Against Flying:
Breaks world pvp to where it's almost non-existant.
Prevents people from viewing the artwork that the dev's worked hard on for the world.

My idea to give everyone a little of what they want, which I'm welcome to creative feedback and will edit my post accordingly to incorporate such feedback is as follows:

1: On RP/PVE realms, incorporate Flying in WoD as a perk for those whom have at least one toon at level 100.

2: Also on RP/PVE realms, once the player has a level 100 toon capable of WoD flying, they can purchase the ability to fly on any other SAME SERVER toon at level 90.

3. On PVP/RPPVP realms in WoD zones, completely disable flying so world pvp is no longer "broken".

4. On PVP/RPPVP realms, while this has nothing to do with flying, an idea to fix the issue of max level players from murdering low level players trying to farm/level grind themselves would be to turn off honor for killing opponents whom are at a lower level than you for those at level cap and those that turn off their exp. Level 100's should need to focus on killing other level 100's, not level 96's whom are still working on those last four levels. (Thank you for the idea Seróquel)

I'm no coder, but from what I've seen them do with things like the Death Knights becoming permitable after one toon reaches 55 for ANY realm, and seeing what they did with the faction rep bonuses in Mists, I believe something like the first two ideas should be simple to do. The third idea would then be a 'realm type check' as soon as they enter a WoD zone and if they fell into the specified server group, they don't fly in those zones until they return to Azeroth.

Edited for idea 4 on 11/13/13

Bashiok

Community Manager

#6 - Nov. 14, 2013, 2:11 a.m.

There's a lot of discussion about flying/not-flying and I'd like to try to sum things up and maybe realign the discussion a bit. Some of the other threads are near-cap, some have really gone down tangents, so I'm just picking this one to throw a reply into. Apologies to the other threads.

We intend to disallow flying while leveling from 90 to 100, and have flying become available again in the first major patch for Warlords of Draenor. No flying while leveling has been the case during Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King, and Mists of Pandaria. We allowed flying during Cataclysm because as those zones were mixed-in with the 1-60 world it just would have been really jarring to dismount you as you fly into Hyjal, etc. but we would have disallowed it for Catalcysm zones as well if there was a reasonable solution there.

Flying trivializes combat. A lot of people like to say we're trying to force world PvP, or that we just really want people to look at the pretty trees we made, but those really aren't the reasons that drive this same decision we've made every expansion. Flying allows you to escape or enter combat at-will. There's a reason why flying isn't allowed in dungeons and raids, or battlegrounds and arenas, and that's because it would trivialize the core mechanic of the game in those areas - combat. For much the same reason it trivializes how content is approached in the outdoor world based on the simple fact that you can lift off and set down wherever you like.

So that's the main reason. But sure there are a lot of other problems it can cause for content design such as zones having to get a lot bigger because flying mounts can travel so quickly (and thus making ground travel in them take much longer), it reduces the impact of elevation within zones, it completely removes the ability for us to pace or present content in any structured way, and in general removes our ability to determine how and when players approach a situation, see a vista or location, or charge into/out-of a combat situation. It just greatly reduces any gameplay we want to create by allowing infinite choice in how content is approached to best suit a player's intention to (usually) avoid that content.

I totally sympathize with people's desire to do that, they want to be efficient and have it be their choice, but we have to balance our intent to create a game against creating a sandbox where anything goes. There's a happy medium there somewhere, but flying mounts in most cases just do too much to undermine too many of our core intentions with the game world, the basis of the game: combat, or guiding players through a game experience, and for those reasons we have continually chosen (when we could) to disallow flying mounts in the 'current' outdoor content. In the past that's meant only while leveling, but in our experiences with the Isle of Thunder and Timeless Isle we feel like we can extend that for a bit longer in the new content, and have it be kind of a big deal again once you're able to earn flying in the first big content patch, and in the meantime putting focus on flight paths as well as having some more interesting travel options for players to use.

Bashiok

Community Manager

#12 - Nov. 14, 2013, 2:17 a.m.

11/13/2013 06:16 PMPosted by Sadiya
We intend to disallow flying while leveling from 90 to 100, and have flying become available again in the first major patch for Warlords of Draenor.

Available again at level cap, or just in general post-6.1?

:( I realize it's a little TLDR but gimme a little slack.

Nethaera

Community Manager

#511 - Nov. 14, 2013, 4:33 p.m.

To keep the conversation all in one thread (hopefully all constructive), I've extended this thread. Please feel free to post here rather than creating new threads. It will help us keep track of ongoing feedback. (Please keep it constructive.)

Nethaera

Community Manager

#556 - Nov. 14, 2013, 5:08 p.m.

No no no no no.
I have paid what? something like 100,000 gold to buy flight for all my alts? You make us pay more gold to learn to fly in new zones and now you're taking this away from us?

No this doesnt fly with me at all. What next? Level up an alt but she can't fly until I do the same quest?

I appreciate you want to make something feel epic again. But do what you're doing and put it towards garrisons. . That would be epic. Taking something away from me that I've repeatedly earned and paid for sucks.

I'm also tired of leveling up again with no flight. Once I have mastered flight, I should be able to buy a tome like cold weather flying.

I dislike no flying until 6.1, but making me quest againto earn something I have sunk MASSIVE gold into, doesnt leave a good taste in my mouth.

Flying isn't being taken away. It's still there in all the other places you've earned it/gained it. All of those mounts you have are still usable. You just won't be using them in Draenor (at least to fly with) until a little while later and you'll still be able to get it at some point. We plan to make travel though via flight paths as convenient as possible and make being on the ground worth it via discoveries within the world.