Regional FlagI'm not having fun anymore - Are you? (p2) (Show MVP Posts)Source
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#1 - 2013/10/28 12:13:00 PM
Yes, hello again. I've "suffered" my ban now and ready to bring back the topic with edited features (Yes, I edited the one word I masked to get the ban; live in denial much moderators?)

I am not having fun in playing arena anymore, at all. Here's a couple reasons why:

-Horrible queue times. I am sitting 10 minutes in que to cap one of my characters. It actually takes me several HOURS to cap when it took 40min last patch. It's actually so frustrating to sit in que for SO long to even cap. And I am not even high mmr, I am playing 2dps so the games go quickly even.

-Class balance is the worst ever. Today I met Enha/Warrior, which we outplayed them from 100-0. Warrior was CC'd, Enha was CC'd, warrior died. Enha was DR'd on all of our CC. He decided that he pops CD's, takes 70% off my hp in a global, I block. He waits the block and Stormblasts me to death. THAT IS ACTUALLY SO AMAZINGLY UNREAL HOW IT'S NOT NERFED YET. He pressed total of 3 buttons that game. Did he actually play better than me to deserve that win?

Same thing in 3s. I have NOT met a comp that DOESN'T have a warrior in TWO WEEKS now. Don't tell me it's RNG, it's just that the class is so disgustingly godmode, everyone has rerolled into a warrior. Their damage, lockdown capability and uptime is the BEST that no comp has EVER had that; now it's in one SPEC. I know my own class is at good/decent stand right now, it's not that I can not succeed. It is just purely BORING, UNFUN, DEMOTIVATING and FRUSTRATING to even consider queuing arenas. I am extremely unsatisfied with the current game that I have never felt this bored in this game. And day after day I wait for the patchnotes to fix class balance issues that are destroying are right now, but they are gone. Every day my skypechats and realid gets spammed how disgusting this game is, how horrible this season is, how bad this game has gone and I just can't take it anymore. And all that is coming from multi-r1 level players who do not like the game at all right now.

My sub is running out in few weeks, if after that there's not a hint of class balance being addressed, I am gone for good. CM's, you can (should) freely pass this to the developers, this is how the community feels. I have given up on giving constructive critisism, as it has really no effect on anyone. There even was an AMA made by former Blizzard Employee and the it was pretty much summarized as "Developers don't care what Q/A, GM's or CS's say, even less what players have to say".

/rant over - I sadly can't be bothered to express my thoughts anymore, it's not worth the time.

And because forum moderators have the power to say developers point of view about what is constructive and what is not, I will add the constructive part to this thread now:

- Melee has WAY too much castercontrol in this game. The fact that melee has so many ways to stop caster from casting is forcing casters to only use instant dmg and cc is absurd. How did it ever get this far? Lets take a look at one of the most popular comps: Rshaman KFC. You have to fake the following to get a cast off:

Pummel, Disrupting Shout, Windshear and Counter Shot/Silencing Shot.
On top of that, they have the ways to interrupt casts with:
Chargestun, Stormbolt, Shockwave, Grounding Totem, Spell Reflect, Mass Spell Reflect.
All while you're affected by -25% haste because of the Hunter's pet passive ability.

Everything above has a really short cooldown, most of them less than 30sec. It is in theory IMPOSSIBLE to get a cast off. Warrior itself has 7 ways to stop a cast in 45sec window. Add on top of that anticaster healer Shaman's ways to stop a cast and then hunter aswell, and you can fake 2-5 different abilities and it still wont matter as he will 99,9% certain stop the cast again. Then on top of that, it is actually impossible to get most melees off yourself. Rogue is the only class I can kite myself away from, everything else has 100% uptime on me, because of the short-cd movement impairing removing tools they have.

What I wrote above is the ROOT of all what is wrong in arena right now. That is what causes casters to stop casting and spam instants. That is what causes PvP to be balanced in that way that instants and RNG 1shot mechanics have to prevail. That is what causes skill to be less relevant and dump keybinds 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 and win -playstyle be the most dominant. That is what causes something that was considered skill to be irrelevant: Fakecasting and juking metagame, kiting metagame and position metagame (melee can run to casters behind pillars and deal unhealable dmg while casters cant go behind pillars to chase melee because melee will annihilate the caster behind the pillar)

On top of what I wrote above is the differences changed between caster and melee. It makes perfect sense in my head that casters, who doesn't have autoattack capabilities should deal big numbers when getting casts off, while melee deals smaller damage with their abilities because they have white attacks to compensate. What has gone through the developement teams head when melee can 2x-3x the casters biggest numbers? Why is every melee except two (warrior and rogue) able to deal that massive damage from range?

All in all what I am trying to say is that: Fix this game, it's not that hard. It's not rocket science. I can do it for you (without touching PvE), why the guys that have massive payroll and education and the possibility, just can not do it?

And just a tip, when you decide to finally stop milking money from this game and stop completely making new raids and patches, it's the PvP that will keep the money coming, not the PvE and leveling. PvE players will be long gone when that happens. Are you certain you want to take a dump on PvP playerbases face?

Aight, rant over (p2), the question is still in place. I ain't having fun no more - are you having fun playing PvP now?

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#73 - 2013/10/31 10:10:00 AM
28/10/2013 16:12Posted by Ønikage
You're a genius, I've quoted this into its own thread hoping for it to catch attention and be read by a Blue. Perhaps Blizzard could use this to restore things for the next expansion.
Your evil plan worked ;)

First of all, thanks to Ishayu for the very constructive post.
I’m not going to extensively counter your arguments or anything like that, I think you’ve made a good effort and your feedback deserves to simply be heard, understood, and passed along to the proper channels.
Even if there are justifications and counter-arguments to it (game being mainly PvE oriented, prospect of “extraordinary”, “surprise” and “new” with every expansion…) your point remains valid, besides, I’m pretty sure most of you already have a clear understanding about those issues. Maybe the biggest problem that this faces (imho) is that PvP would probably require a complete separation from PvE or even from WoW itself to have enough independence in order to be able to follow the kind of design philosophy you propose.

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#115 - 2013/10/31 05:11:00 PM
I think some of you might be reading a bit too much into what I've said, and I probably should have expressed myself a bit differently.
PvP is an intrinsic part of World of Warcraft. Just the fact that players have to choose one of two factions that are at war with one another is proof enough of that.

Nevertheless, if you follow WoW since the very beginning, you can see the evolution that PvP went through until now.
Initially, there wasn’t even any instanced PvP content at all. Battlegrounds were introduced a few months after the game was launched and Arenas only came with the first expansion.
Meanwhile you had a lot of PvE content being pushed out, new raids, new dungeons, new items, new quests… but this is beside the point, it’s not fair to compare the amount of PvE to PvP content, they’re two completely different beasts.
PvE players will never be happy if we let content stagnate, that’s just the nature of PvE Content. It needs constant and regular updates. Players also expect to progress, and it’s even more complex than that, because they also expect content to remain challenging. (Players’ experience rises, and the new content’s difficulty has to match it)
PvP players on the other hand are much more likely to be happy with less content updates and less changes, as they tend to focus on balance and gameplay mechanics.
With this in mind and given that there are many more players interested on the PvE than the on the PvP side of WoW, I think it comes as no surprise that PvE uses a lot more resources than PvP does.

Things can get even more complicated when you start to look at what drives players and what their motivations are, for example, item upgrades and character power progression are concepts that pose a challenge to PvP balance, but whether you like it or not, it became one of the main drives for a lot of PvP players, so PvE and PvP are actually tangled with each other on many aspects.
You can try to make a distinction and say that those are actually “PvE players” that enjoy PvP as a way to progress their characters, but does that really matter? Maybe it does, but the fact is, there are more players interested into PvP than the “hardcore” PvP crowd.
WoW is a game where PvE and PvP are supposed to be mixed, the open world is the best example of that, it’s neither exclusively PvE nor PvP, it’s both at the same time. That was the essence of PvP in WoW, to let players fight each other whenever they go face to face in the open world, and ideally that should feel seamless. I know it’s not really seamless at the moment (especially with the controversy about world-PvP), but maybe we can do something about that in the future.

The topic being discussed is a very hard problem to solve and I really appreciate your thoughts on it, I know how frustrating it can be when certain things occasionally affect PvP. I’ve always been into both arenas and raiding, and I try my best to have an unbiased view on the subject, I think a lot of you do too, and we just have to realize that there is no easy and perfect solution for this, what you can expect though is that we will do our very best (and your feedback really helps) to make both PvE and PvP coexist "peacefully" at the same time in the same game.