Regional FlagWhy MoP ruined the game for casual players (Show MVP Posts)Source
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#1 - 2013/01/13 08:25:00 PM
Now, first of all, I'd like to say that I've played WoW since Patch 1.6 and seen most of what Blizzard has had to offer in this game. I've done raids, dungeons, heroics, world events (including the AQ serverwide event), quests, dailies, key chains, class chains and I've leveled a dozen characters to level 60 and above. So I'm no new player, and this is not a "whine-thread".

Since MoP's release (actually before that, but especially since then), the game has started to bug me, and the reasons are simple.

I am a teacher by education, which means that in addition to an 8 AM - 15 PM workday, I have at least 2-3 hours of extra work when I get home. Add driving to work, cooking food, spending time with friends and family, I am left with very, very little time to play. And that's where my problem comes in. Since then, the game has become nothing more than a giant pile of dailies. You want gear? Do dailies. You want quests? Dailies. You want end-game content without raiding eight days a week? Dailies, dailies, dailies.

But guess what? I don't have time for dailies! And neither does the average casual player in a similar situation like me! I am in a casual guild with casual players, and it has become nearly impossible for us to keep up with the immense amount of dailies required to even give the game meaning. Cataclysm was a faceroll in tabards and dungeons. MoP is a mountain of dailies, only climbable by those who have hours to spare every day.

Well, Blizzard, I don't have time to do several hours of dailies every single day, and neither does 95% of the casual players, and I have a guild full of them to back me up. I have friends who play, and they spend all afternoon doing dailies, sometimes even more!

As I'm writing this, I haven't logged on for about three weeks, and I am considering cancelling my account, because the game simply isn't playable for casual fun anymore. Sure, I can level up new characters, explore and do that sort of thing, but where's the progress in that? In Vanilla, TBC, WotLK and Cata I could play 1-2 hours every night and maybe on saturdays, and I'd do good progression. Now, that's not possible anymore. I spent every available day/night from MoP release until November doing dailies, and it led me nowhere, because it wasn't enough time to do them all.

Please, Blizzard, make the game playable for casual players again, you managed it fine for six years, don't screw it up now.

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#96 - 2013/01/14 06:42:00 PM
13/01/2013 20:25Posted by Jethrow
You want gear? Do dailies. You want quests? Dailies. You want end-game content without raiding eight days a week? Dailies, dailies, dailies.

You want gear?
Do heroics, Raid Finder, Scenarios, upgrade items, PVP (for PVP gear, of course)

You want quests?
Do the quests you haven't finished while leveling through Pandaria. Or yes, do dailies (let's not forget it's "daily quests").

End-game content without raiding:
Pet battles, Scenarios, Heroics, Challenge Dungeons, PVP.

And in any case, casual players can still play the game just as always, at their own pace. There's no requirement for you to have everything at a particular pace (especially if you aren't really on the raiding competition).

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#116 - 2013/01/14 07:06:00 PM
14/01/2013 18:58Posted by Shandz
Daily quests being the only way for reputation was, is, and will always be BAD.

Why is this the case?

If you want the gear purely for progression terms, LFR is readily available and you won't have to go through reputations, you can also get some 496 items from crafting (though I bet those won't be exactly cheap if you need to look for a crafter you don't know at all).

Other than gear, what the reputation is giving you access to right now is just vanity items. On which case, why do you think it's unfair to invest some time leveling the reputation of those factions that offer you a vanity reward you want? (especially considering that, thanks to Grand Commendations, it doesn't take as long to raise reputations to Exalted as it did during 5.0).

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#280 - 2013/01/15 01:01:00 PM
14/01/2013 19:17Posted by Shandz
I prefer dedicating, let's say, one day to grind one faction, by doing dungeon runs, grinding mobs, maybe doing some dailies, and then be off with it (for example I blasted from friendly to exalted with Skettis in less than 2 days)

Have you considered the sole fact you can't do that is one of the reasons you've got something to do for longer rather than be done with everything in a single day and the complain for the next 3 weeks there's nothing to do?

This is a classic response.
"We're reading what you're saying, but we're not listening because this is what we're doing and we don't care."

You're implying we should listen to all kinds of hyperboles. There's a BIG difference between feedback and hyperboles. If we based the feedback we passed to the devs on them (and for some reason our developers suddenly became individuals without any judgment capabilities) then the game would be in a real ugly place, to be honest.

It's fine if you don't like something. It's fine if you hate it with burning passion. It's not fine when you go on to ignore every other aspect of the game, reduce everything it offers to the absolute minimum, and then demand we act based on such a silly premise.

14/01/2013 20:04Posted by Sonnk
Can you honestly say you enjoy dailies? I sure as hell can't. Well, for a few days after I hit 90, they were refreshing and enjoyable. Thereafter they were a grind, a bore, an extremely poor design and a wasted effort.

I do. I enjoy them, I find them useful to do something outside my daily dungeon/raid routine. I've only stopped running them once I've hit exalted with all Pandaria factions to instead run scenarios, old raids and PVP.

14/01/2013 20:04Posted by Sonnk
Do you fear repute? Does your pride stop you from even attempting to admit that there's something even slightly wrong?

I'm noone to judge if there's something wrong with the amount of daily quests. I'm not a developer. I can understand, however, how a player might feel he's got to climb a huge mountain when you just reach level 90 and realize all the reputations you've got to go through.

But the thing is, now that all content is unlocked (unlike at MoP's launch), you can really progress at your leisure.

14/01/2013 20:04Posted by Sonnk
I'm sure many players, like myself, would be a lot more satisfied if we got a response that was understanding of our concerns and hatred for daily quests and acknowledged that we want an alternative.

There's plenty of alternative activities. The issue here, I fear, is that you want the rewards tied to daily quests without doing daily quests. I would like to have Heroic raiding gear rewards without doing Heroic raiding every day, but hey, I understand that wouldn't be healthy for the game.

14/01/2013 20:07Posted by Vilegore
Being an altoholic casual player my only complain about the dailies is that you have to them several times if you want to experience some casual end-game with a few alts.

Honest question: Isn't a better option for some casual end-game to run LFR with your alts? You'll get a shot at gear every week rather than having to go through those faction items.

14/01/2013 20:33Posted by Crico
Even if you are a paying customer they really dont care what you say about this topic, they think the solution to Cata problems are dailys times 25 a day.

Oh, please. The solution to Cataclysm problems, if you look at what's been added since then (4.0), is:
-Pet Battles, Scenarios, Raid Finder, Daily quest reputations, Item Upgrades, The Tillers farm (and how you can use it for Cooking), Brawlers Guild, Black Market Auction House, World Bosses.

It's just not objective to go and argue that everything that's been added it's dailies.

And saying that LFR is so easy it is not when you need ilvl463 to get in the first one. so you need to do dailys to get gear that gets you up to the ilvl or ofc buy gear at 20-30k gold a piece.
So just leave the topic.

LFR requires you to have ilvl460, which you can get by completing all the Dread Wastes quests, some Townlong Steppes rewards, and if you're still lacking gear for some reason: heroics/scenarios. You don't need to dailies to get in.

The problem with dailies is their structure. If you missed one set of dailies for whatever reason, then suddenly you're a behind. Your goal is a day further away from you and there's nothing you can do. This easily starts to mount up and it can eventually get to the point where you have missed so much rep that you just give in, because even though you're just seven days from exalted, you've still got to do the same old dailies that you've been doing for the past few months and it gets boring.

This isn't really true though. If you're 7 days away from reaching exalted, and you miss one day of dailies, you won't be at 8 days from exalted, you'll remain at 7. You're not losing anything. It's just up to you if you want to finish those 7 days in a single week, once every week, once every month...

Sure, I can see how people who had only one character would be bored by the Cataclysm model, contrary to people with many alts. But the MoP model of content is going way too much in the other direction, with alts being heavily discouraged by all the chores Blizz is pushing on us.

And it would really be to the good for the dialogue between fans and developers, if the Blizz reps here would stop being deliberately obtuse. "But you don't have to do all of this!" is not a valid comment in a game which relies so heavily on keeping players in the progression spiral ( with casuals like me being at the very low end of progression, but still feeling the need to make their character(s) better ).

When there's so much content to do with your main, do you truly need an army of alts at the same level your main is right now? at this very moment? I can't quite wrap my head around the argument of being a casual and at the same time arguing you need to have a bunch of alts at the very same level your main is.

15/01/2013 03:21Posted by Baiyun
No, we are not forced to do these dailies to be able to casually raid, however, it's damn hard to know that you have potential rewards within reach limited only by time-input, no actual effort aside from the time spent, and say 'Oh well, we got our behinds handed to us by this enrage, but it's ok, we're not as commited as those other guys doing dailies, so we'll just be content wiping since we don't have time (or even want) to do those daily quests.

Unless you're at your maximum skill level you're going to get a much bigger return from working on how well you play your character than picking a new item for him. Unless you're just massively undergeared (which you can fix by getting gear from an ample pool that is just not limited to dailies).

However, there are tons of things to discover in Mists if you go out and explore.
The devs has places all sorts of cool and interesting treasures out in the world.
I've had some great times just flying and riding around in Pandaria exploring.

So true :-)

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#345 - 2013/01/15 04:45:00 PM
15/01/2013 15:48Posted by Afgaad
do. I enjoy them, I find them useful to do something outside my daily dungeon/raid routine.

Sure go ahead and lie but please try not to make it that obvious.
If you find them useful and enjoyable, you must be flying around in orgrimmar/stormwind waiting for something to happen because that's the only thing i know is worse than questing.
And how dare you defend the content??? We both know it's crap and the one who created it deserves to hear it.

Sorry but you can't call me a liar because you don't like my opinion. If you don't like questing, that's all fine (in fact, there's plenty of players out there that don't like having to level when a new expansion is launched), but you can't pretend your opinion is an universal, undisputable truth and everyone else is just a liar.

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#494 - 2013/01/16 11:16:00 AM
15/01/2013 13:01Posted by Draztal
LFR requires you to have ilvl460, which you can get by completing all the Dread Wastes quests, some Townlong Steppes rewards, and if you're still lacking gear for some reason: heroics/scenarios. You don't need to dailies to get in.

Yes I'm quoting myself!

As some people have pointed out, you can't reach ilvl 460 in Dread Wastes/Townlong Steppes (and I totally made a mistake in that sense). What I was referring instead, was 5-man heroics. My points stands still, you don't need dailies to gain access to the LFR, and chain running 5-man heroics will be faster too since you don't need a 463 item on every slot to access LFR, but you won't get it either just with Dread Wastes/Townlong exclusively :)

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#542 - 2013/01/16 05:00:00 PM
16/01/2013 16:04Posted by Zasz
And on top of that we have blues talking about ingame stuff without even doing that with their own chars. One example is a class designer, not sure if it was priest or druid, he plays one of them and works on the other he is assigned to.

I'm a dedicated WoW player (and have been since 2005), I raid most of the week and I engage in the same activities you do in-game. So, in that particular regard, I've had my own experiences leveling from 85 to 90 and getting my character raid ready in a timely manner :-)

16/01/2013 16:04Posted by Zasz
I´m playing since 06 and started raiding in BC and very often I can only facepalm to the crap the blues feed us, be it on the forums, vie twitter or some place else. Draztal is one example of a blue that shouldnt be allowed to post anywhere where players could read it.

You don't have to agree with what we say. Our goal is not to hold hands with everyone, bow down our heads, say "yes sir" and bring every single request to the developers without any objective questioning. That's not quite how it works. You're participating on a discussion forum, so, as its name implies, it's to be expected there'll be some discussion about a given topic, not just from our side (no matter if it's to acknowledge something, share information from the developers, or just add our own experience), but from other players that may agree or disagree with what you're saying.

Having said that, and as others have mentioned, if you feel you have feedback about a particular Community Manager (or the whole team, etc) you would like to pass on, we encourage you to do so through [email protected]