Warriors are fine, it's a L2P issue

So this video has been getting around a lot lately, showing up in many different threads so let us just make this the main one for its discussion :)

05/11/2012 07:13Posted by Adeyemi

Yeah, because clearly you should be expecting a 200k+ HC strike. I'm sorry, but there's no way you can anticipate this kind of damage as it's completely RNG and you're dead before you can react.

Actually, in a way you can. If you monitor the Warriors buffs, you will be able to see the number of Taste for Blood (TFB) stacks that are building up and this is can indicate when the cooldowns are going to be popped and the big damage is incoming. So this allows you to be prepared for when they jump onto you and you can use your defensive cooldowns. Please understand that we are in no way saying that this damage is fine, but it does take a lot of work for a Warrior to do this and can be predicted.

I know that the theory is not the same as in practice and keeping constant tabs on the Warriors TFB stacks is not always possible. The main point that needs to be mentioned though is that the cooldowns you can see being blown in this video on their own, while a major damage increase, is not substantial enough to global a player unless used in conjunction with several stacks of TFB to create a HUGE heroic strike critical.

For a Warrior to build up enough stacks to global a player like seen in this video, they need a incredible amounts of up time to make sure the stacks of TFB do not fall off before getting a new one. To make it clearer, in 15 seconds they need to get a new stack of TFB and then repeat that, hoping their stacks do not fall off before the buff expires. Four or five TFB stacks are generally needed to pull off the Heroic Strike damage you see in the video on a well geared player and because of the changes in 5.1 these stacks while still possible to build, will not be as easy to get as they are now.

The main change that does this is the one to Avatar, which removes movement impairing effects rather than making you immune to them, this is because your up-time will not be nearly as high. This means that while you may very rarely still see a large heroic strike like this because someone is good enough or the Warrior is facing someone who is struggling to keep their distance, they will be less common. If a Warrior is good enough to build those stacks though, you can anticipate the incoming damage by watching their TFB stacks.

So this change to Avatar lowers two key issues with Warriors, mobility and burst and the Gag Order change helps with their control. Do not think that these change makes Warriors too controllable or weak in Arena, they will simply no longer be able to turn into an unstoppable wrecking ball and build up TFB stacks then afterwards global a player.

06/11/2012 17:15Posted by Triumvir

Please understand that we are in no way saying that this damage is fine

''Warriors – We don’t think Warrior burst is out of control'' Ghostcrawler

What do u mean? ur Lord and Master Gregy boy told us that Warrior burst is fine! how dare u go against his divine will!

I never said that Warrior burst was not fine >.> I just said that the 230K crit you see here is a lot of damage and that we are not implying that this much damage from one skill is fine.

06/11/2012 17:23Posted by Saneko

If you pop all defenses possible as healer on yourself the thing that a warrior does is switching target and hitting the other person full in the face.

The Warrior only has one chance with their TFB. What I meant was that if you see those TFB stacks and the Warrior pops his cooldowns, if your reactions are good you can make him waste the TFB stacks. If they use up those TFB stacks on someone with their defensive cooldowns, the switch they make after is not all that scary.

06/11/2012 17:25Posted by Serpian

....Please understand that we are in no way saying that this damage is fine, but it does take a lot of work for a Warrior to do this and can be predicted....

Not taking your words out of context here, but a warrior takes a lot of work to get TFB stacks to 5?

That's like doing the lottery and winning, saying it's "a lot of work".

It's RNG, simple as that, and to win games off of the back of RNG and RNG alone, is not something that should have even made it live, seeing as it's an intended mechanic and not a bug that was overshadowed on the Beta.

As we're keeping this to one thread, to prove my point at just how quick a warrior can get 5 stacks of TFB and end a match instantly, watch the following:

>>http://de.twitch.tv/dakkrothwow/b/338084424?t=4h2m35s<<

That fight lasts about 30seconds, maye a little more? So difficult to prevent! So easy to anticipate! Just stop the warrior...

I never denied the fact that it was RNG and yes, there can be times where this happens. While you are strongly suggesting that it makes it easy to get, I would argue with. If luck is in your favor you can indeed get the stacks on your first try five times in a row, but the chance of that happening is 0.243% so I would consider the clip you linked a freak occurrence. In general though, it is something that requires you to be stuck to your target and trying many times to get to several stacks of TFB. And again, while not always possible but can help, monitoring the warriors buffs can let you know when this damage is incoming and the changes in patch 5.1 will make it harder for a Warrior to stick to a target and get those TFB stacks.

06/11/2012 17:45Posted by Vaju

Got to love that blue guy, trying to defend this rofl, only a payed person can say.

Urrr...

06/11/2012 17:21Posted by Nakatoir

I just said that the 230K crit you see here is a lot of damage and that we are not implying that this much damage from one skill is fine.

I cannot say this enough, I am not defending TFB nor have we said at any point that this much damage coming from a single skill in PvP is fine. I actually posted that three times so far in this thread. I come here to add to the discussion that is already happening and hope to spur further conversation on the subject. As we always do, the feedback in this thread has been noted so please continue to discuss the topic.

Even though it is off-topic, Chaos Bolt damage is something that has been mentioned here a few times. Understand that mistakes in arena should be something that creates consequences for you. Allowing a three second cast like Chaos bolt to finish is a mistake and as such the consequence is lots of incoming damage. The only time there is an exception to the three second cast is when Backdraft affects Chaos Bolt, which you can see coming from the Warlock having three Burning Embers. Awareness and good reactions helps preventing damage from this though. You can also force the Warlock into using their Burning Embers defensively on Ember Tap or other skills so they cannot cast as many Chaos bolts. I recommend that you open up a separate thread to discuss Warlocks and Chaos Bolt, this topic is about Warrior damage and Taste for Blood.

Back on topic; we are going to be trying out a change on the PTR where Taste for Blood will only be able to stack to a maximum of three. As has been said earlier in the thread and by Ghostcrawler on Twitter, the chance of getting five stacks is so incredibly low that this will have very little balance implications. We do admit though, the lack of it continuing to occur after this will be a nice quality of life and balance change. :)

Please continue to give your feedback on TFB and Warrior burst, as well as constructive thoughts on how you think it could be changed, for example: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5847955473?page=8#141