Regional FlagShields on arms & furySource
Target Source
#1 - 2012/08/27 12:44:00 AM
First, this is not a "I don't wanna go to s&b for spell reflect & shieldwall post." I'm ok with the requirement to go sword and board despite the disadvantages.

I've seen some of the over the top damage that warriors can do. It's going to be nerfed, I'm 100% positive of that, and honestly, I'm ok with it. Nobody in the game should have a move that can do 90% of your health, no matter what cd's he used or what cd's you DIDN'T use.

It seems to me that warriors have traded some durability (demo shout leaps to mind) for that over the top burst, which is going to be nerfed. Our durability was already too low in my opinion, so when the inevitable smackdown of that burst comes (which, again, rightfully so), we'll have nerfed burst and even less durability than we currently have (and nobody would suggest that warriors are very durable on live).

What I put forth is that you make shields MASSIVELY more desirable for arms & fury than they currently are. Make the armor not subject to any form of arp. Make the fact that we have a shield decrease magic damage as well as physical damage. REDUCE SPELL REFLECT TO NO MORE THAN 15 SECOND cd.

I'm not asking for the sun and the moon here. When a warrior puts on a 1 hander and a shield, his damage drops through the floor, particularly for arms, which is, in theory, the pvp spec. All I'm asking for is that we gain nearly as much durability and utility as we lose in offensive pressure.

I think this would make the warrior class more enjoyable, and honestly, pvp in general better, since putting a shield on should not necessarily be a "tunnel the warrior more" sign, but rather a "we can keep tunneling the warrior, but this comes with risks, since he just traded away a lot of offensive pressure for utility and durability" situation.

[edited to add] also, imo, shield block should be baseline AND revenge spam was EXACTLY the kind of thing that SHOULD be in the game - large incentive to stop attacking the warrior unless you can stun/dismantle or attack from the rear is VERY fair for losing a huge amount of offensive pressure. I honestly do not understand - and I mean, at all, why revenge spam was removed from the game, never mind why shield block is becoming prot only. I feel this is precisely the wrong direction to take warriors - mindless single macro damage spammers that, if we can't kill them in a few seconds, we can't kill them toons that have even less utility than we currently have.

Game Designer
Target Source
#11 - 2012/08/27 08:25:00 PM
A warrior by class concept is a highly armored melee fighter, giving up mobility for durability.

I'm not sure that was ever the WoW design of the warrior. Our warriors have always had high mobility. In fact, paladins used to be the low movement, high durability class in PvP and it wasn't a particularly fun niche. If you're hard to kill, then people just tend to not attack you unless they have to attack you, which typically means you're going to score a point or you provide so much pressure that they're forced to attack you (in which case you aren't really a defensive guy).

That's kind of my point. Dragon's roar is clearly OP. It's going to be nerfed - honestly, I have to scratch my head at how this even made it off a dev's table to start with.

As far as Dragon Roar goes, it is a lot of burst, no doubt. However, its damage is balanced against Bladestorm and Shockwave, and in fact you see many PvP warriors choosing Bladestorm or Shockwave instead. (Their videos just aren't as exciting). I also suspect if we nerfed Dragon Roar, that warriors would just choose Bladestorm or Shockwave instead unless we nerfed all three, and I suspect we'd have to nerf them all by something horrible like 30% to really notice a difference. We don't want to do that.

Where Dragon Roar might be gratuitous is in the AE damage and the stun. It probably doesn't need to do so much damage to large groups. It's possible we will have problems with 2-3 Dragon Roars (from different warriors) in a flag room. We added the stun mostly as kit but it doesn't need to be that long. Then victims would at least have a chance for a defensive button before the Execute or whatever comes next. (If we shortened the stun, we'd have to evaluate the DR though.)

Dragon Roar already does not benefit from Colossus Smash or Recklessness (though those cooldowns can affect other attacks used at the same general time). It would be nice if it didn't work with Avatar, but I'm not sure that change would really solve much. We do want to make sure PvP warriors don't always choose Avatar though.

Game Designer
Target Source
#25 - 2012/08/27 09:00:00 PM
I don't think it's super helpful to discuss the issue in terms of 1 vs. 1 mage vs. warrior and the celebrated history of that relationship. I am personally more interested in whether warrior burst damage is too high in PvP.

(And yes, I derailed the thread from the original topic of warriors using shields, which is also a legit discussion, and for which I apologize.)