Regional FlagPvE trinkets in PvP, A comprehensive review (Show MVP Posts)Source
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#1 - 2012/07/12 04:08:00 PM
This thread is going to be a comprehensive look over time to see which types of PvE trinkets have often been used in pvp, which design flaws these trinkets have in common and what can be done to make sure this doesn't happen again in the future.

The scientific data

As a scientist myself, I can say that this survey was done in an entirely unscientific way: the only person interviewed for the perceived ''overpoweredness'' of trinkets was myself, also I started my ''research'' with the assumption that a certain species of pve trinkets were overpowered and I found the evidence to support this claim, so it might be slightly colored.
Because I am the only research subject, I may have forgotten, overlooked or generally missed certain trinkets, feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Who am I?

I have been involved in high-level pvp since about~s3, I have gladiator in s3/4 and have had the ''junkie'' status on Arena Junkies for the entire TBC, WOTLK & a big chunk of cata. On this shaman I am currently sitting a 2500 team, which should be gladiator or very close.
The above was not stated as bragging, however it is a statement as to why my opinion is relevant on the subject.

The research parameters

For this review I have chosen the following trinkets: Every trinket which could be obtained from a raid in the seasons 3 to 11. This means all the trinkets are from SSC/TK or higher level raid instances. If there are multiple versions of each trinket avaible, I have put the best one on the list for the purpose of being able to compare them.
For this review, I have chosen only to focus on rated arena, simply because rated battlegrounds (introduced in s9) are more group oriented and therefore leave inherently more room for PvE items to be good. However, for RBG similar conclusions could be drawn
I have used the following methods of obtaining a list of trinkets: wowhead searches with the following parameters:;crs=-2323:-2323;crv=0:0;ma=1;eb=1 (for all the post-TBC trinkets)
and filter=qu=4;cr=16:16:16:16:16;crs=3959:3845:3607:616:4075;crv=0:0:0:0:0;ma=1;eb=1
(for all TBC trinkets from SSC/TK/BT/MH/SWP)
I have also included 1 non-raiding trinket simply because I remember in being so overpowered.
The reason why I don't touch on dungeon, valor or Darkmoon Faire trinkets is because they are easily available to all players and therefore, while they could be overpowered, don't tend to cause as much of an imbalance.

The trinket review

This review will start with the lowest Ilevel slowly working my way up to the highest.
Next to every trinket I will state if it had an effect on competitive arena and if so, why this was.
After this list I will point out which type of trinkets tend to cause the imbalances and which design decisions blizzard should avoid making towards trinkets in order to have a competitive game.
There are 4 categories under which I will label the overpowered trinkets:
1. Class mechanics: this means that a trinket interacts with a certain class mechanic very well and therefore enhances the specific class alot
2. Damage procs: this means that a trinket has the ability to cause damage as a chance on hit, this often causes alot of burst in pvp making these types of trinkets very good
3. Haste-procs/uses: these types of trinkets give a temporary (on-use) increase in haste, making them very good for casters in pvp.
4. It has on-use damage or healing

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#87 - 2012/07/17 06:15:00 PM
I will just jump in here and say that is an excellent post Daisyx, I can see that this must have taken you a lot of time and effort to construct. As you can see in the difference between season 11 and 12, we have already begun adding additional stats to the PvP trinkets. This will hopefully begin making them more appealing comparatively to the PvE trinkets.

Actually the only ''design'' I want to limit are:
1. No more ''damage on proc'' trinkets
2. No more ''haste on use or on proc trinkets''

Understandable, however as has already been pointed out, a lot of people find these trinket procs fun and would find it quite saddening to see them go :( What's your feedback for alternative procs that could replace these?

I believe that my solution of a an on use resilience buff would be desirable in PvP, good for the game and have little negative side effects. It increases the skill cap, it could counter some of the burst and it would make the game slower.

I personally like this, it is something that would help protect you from burst and if it instead was an on use that added both PvP power and defense it could be instead used to either counter burst or be utilised to create your own :O Would create some great optional choice to the trinket on how it can be used.

15/07/2012 04:28Posted by Mytotemishot
You can make damage trinkets apply a dot, and they should have a chance to be activated when cc is cast.

This I am not so much a fan of. On top of what was already said by Daisyx, DoTcleave teams or similar using this (This is all thinking theoretical) would have an additional DoT that they can apply across your whole team, which could be a large sum of additional damage.

13/07/2012 19:41Posted by Daisyx
Guys, try to thread Jito with some respect

This as well, and it applies for everyone. A differing perspective is not trolling and you should all should treat each others opinions with respect. This is a great thread so far, so keep up the wonderful feedback :)

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#110 - 2012/07/18 05:04:00 PM
I can see that this thread may be starting to derail. If you have feedback or concerns for CM’s and MVP’s then please send it to [email protected], do not discuss it on the forums. Remember also to respect the opinions of others; you not agreeing with someone does not make their point invalid.

18/07/2012 17:39Posted by Mazken
It's probably high time Blizzard introduced a PvP orientated MvP, not just some random hero. By orientated I mean someone whos played at decent high ratings, legitimately etc, couple people spring to mind.

If you have recommendations for someone who would be fitting as an MVP, then please send an email to [email protected] where it will be reviewed.

Now, let’s get back on topic :)
Buff PvP trinkets to reduce the power of PvE trinkets. This would eliminate the PvE trinket problem for the most part. There are tons of design choices when it comes to PvP trinkets, some of which would improve or change game play. A trinket that would improve the gameplay: On-Use Hand Of Sacrifice trinket.

I understand why you say this, and bringing PvP trinkets to the level of PvE ones would indeed combat the issue raised here...but I see a flaw. The matter that is being brought up in this thread is that certain PvE trinkets cause imbalance in arena, if you were to bring the PvP ones to that level would that not also cause an imbalance?

The thought of your Hand of Sacrifice trinket is aiming at finding a middle ground, which is nice, but I am not sure if this particular effect would be appealing to many players. It would be interesting to see how an on-use effect such as this would play out in PvP though.