Black Market is starting to go too far

No one should count on this even being close to a viable option for gearing up a character. If you can raise that kind of gold in the game, you're going to have much better success paying your way into raids for gear than hoping the right items appear for you in the black market AH (which doesn't include set pieces), hoping you can afford to outbid everyone else on your realm, and hoping you're the last one to bid before the auction ends.

Sure, it'll have some of the best rewards for sale. But that doesn't mean it'll be remotely reliable for one person to gear up quickly. It's the black market, after all. :)

Ultimately the system is going to benefit the extremely wealthy and the extremely lucky. But in all likelihood the benefits won't at all be consistent, even for those who can pony up the gold.

06/15/2012 06:26 PMPosted by Explorcane

Ok I have started to get mad about what your thinking about putting on the Black Market Auction House. I was fine with the mounts because mounts aren't as important to most on how they get it. But if you start putting up BiS raiding gear or even pvp gear this game will die. You will start seeing people only farm or buy gold and get their gear only by paying for it through the Market. Bad idea please don't do it.

What I don't get is: We've gone from
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/4736886

We think killing dragons and ransacking their hoard is more epic than shopping at the magic armor store, so we want to shift back toward boss kills being the primary source of epic PvE gear.

To being ok with buying Raiding gear (for any price) with gold?
Just seems inconsistent to me.

The two actually aren't mutually exclusive concepts. You're glossing over far too many details for this to be a valid argument.

The overwhelming majority of WoW players will not suddenly be buying their gear at the magic armor store. Taken in the context in which that quote was originally made -- where we were referring to players collecting tokens from bosses to shop at a magic store -- it still holds true.

The rest of us are telling you we're fine with the BMAH as is, and we're unwilling to oppose something we like because you want to go to the extreme.

Except that my argument against the BMAH was more than what it portends for the future.

So you're not arguing about the topic that is, you're arguing about the topics that could, in your mind, conceivably follow at some nebulous point in WoW's future.

Why?

The overwhelming majority of WoW players will not suddenly be buying their gear at the magic armor store. Taken in the context in which that quote was originally made -- where we were referring to players collecting tokens from bosses to shop at a magic store -- it still holds true.

So buying armor with a token from a boss was bad, but buying armor with gold is good?

I'm trying to be a rationale skeptical person here but that makes absolutely no sense. The problem with players buying their loot from the magic armor shop was not the currency used to make the purchase, it was how purchasing gear with a currency detracted from the experience of looting a defeated enemy.

No, my point was that those can't be equally compared. For that to be true, we'd first have to create a situation where the standard for all PvE players switches from spending tokens on powerful items, to spending gold on powerful items.

The BMAH can't be compared to the token system that way. As I mentioned before, that's glossing over far too many details about both systems.

But spending hours and hours playing the AH shouldn't be?

Why is one source of fun rewarded and another not?

PvP Vs PVE ring any bells?

Basically what this entire conversation is coming down to are arguments for and against buying BiS. You can swap out gold with money and have the same conversation.

No, you can't swap out the two so trivially as this. Most everyone else in this thread is arguing the positives and negatives of the BMAH. Your arguments are about what might follow the BMAH and are almost entirely conjecture.

No, my point was that those can't be equally compared. For that to be true, we'd first have to create a situation where the standard for all PvE players switches from spending tokens on powerful items, to spending gold on powerful items.

The BMAH can't be compared to the token system that way. As I mentioned before, that's glossing over far too many details about both systems.

What are those differences besides how frequently the gear can be purchased at the store?

The token system, which that original quote about the magic shop was referring to, was a means for virtually everyone to obtain their PvE tier sets. What we said was that this ended up not feeling as rewarding, 'cause you ended up just collecting a currency to spend at a vendor rather than grabbing your loot straight off the dead bodies of bosses.

The token system was implemented to try and make RNG feel a little less punishing, but it had some side effects.

The BMAH system can hardly be compared to that system. You never know when the BMAH will have something you can use, you can't buy anything out, items are BoP, and you're competing with everyone on your realm who might want/need the item.

That's much more RNG and isn't a system that, in anyway, will completely replace the act of killing bosses for loot. It will be randomly rewarding to a small minority of people who happen to have a lot of gold and are lucky with timing. But as I said originally, even then it won't be reliably or consistently rewarding.

It's just a shoddy comparison.

It's not impressive because Blizz has made it so in some crazy attempt to retain casual customers; the same casual customers that played happily through vanilla and bc. It's okay Timmy, you too need this glorious epic weapon. Now you can do your dailies 3x faster! Woohoo!

It's not so much that, but rather the re-use of models across difficulties.

A heroic weapon might take 100x more effort and skill to obtain than its normal counterpart, but the only visual difference is a pallet change and possibly some flavor text in the tool-tip. This pretty much murders any prestige value of gear, since potentially prestigious gear doesn't have any visual elements to portray that at a glance.

I agree. That's a much more valid argument.

For those speculating about the rate of gear gains from the black market auction house, here's how things currently work. Keep in mind it's still beta and this is all subject to change.

The chances that a tier-14 raid or PvP item of any given armor type will be listed each day is roughly 10%. Logistically, this means there will be plenty of days where no new armor is available to anyone. Some days, if the black market vendors are extra fortunate in their scavenging for goods, you might see a piece of gear for each armor type. The items under each armor type include belts, boots and bracers, and there will be a separate vendor offering jewelry.

For those speculating about the rate of gear gains from the black market auction house, here's how things currently work. Keep in mind it's still beta and this is all subject to change.

The chances that a tier-13 raid or PvP item of any given armor type will be listed each day is roughly 10%. Logistically, this means there will be plenty of days where no new armor is available to anyone. Some days, if the black market vendors are extra fortunate in their scavenging for goods, you might see a piece of gear for each armor type. The items under each armor type include belts, boots and bracers, and there will be a separate vendor offering jewelry.

Almost a better percentage of me getting some items to drop from bosses it seems though. In fact it took months to get the healing trinket from spine for anyone in the guild.

Just keep in mind you're competing against far more people than you were in your raid. You also have to be able to afford it and place your bid at just the right time.

Just keep in mind you're competing against far more people than you were in your raid. You also have to be able to afford it and place your bid at just the right time.

What happened to the "loot should come from bosses" concept that prompted the valor change?

I covered that somewhere in the last 10 pages of this thread. Unfortunately the "Blizz" logo to jump to follow-up blue posts is currently missing from the forums.

For those speculating about the rate of gear gains from the black market auction house, here's how things currently work. Keep in mind it's still beta and this is all subject to change.

The chances that a tier-14 raid or PvP item of any given armor type will be listed each day is roughly 10%. Logistically, this means there will be plenty of days where no new armor is available to anyone. Some days, if the black market vendors are extra fortunate in their scavenging for goods, you might see a piece of gear for each armor type. The items under each armor type include belts, boots and bracers, and there will be a separate vendor offering jewelry.

So... you're telling me there's a chance? YEAH!