Regional Flag[Shaman] General Class FeedbackSource
Target Source
#1 - 2012/04/30 04:14:00 AM
Shaman don't have a general feedback forum post in here, so I'm going to keep one alive for the community to post their thoughts and feedback on the changes so far! Tell us what you like, what you don't like, changes you'd like to see... well, let's get this started.

Personally I love the direction we're headed in, but I don't think we're nearly there yet. There are a lot of things (specifically with talents and glyphs) that leave no choice or are just uninteresting/thoughtless. I'm hoping that we're just not completely fleshed out yet while they're working on other things and they will eventually get to us, because right now it feels like we need a lot of changes.

Spec/Class Feedback

The new changes did a lot for Elemental (I can't comment on Enhance as I haven't gotten a chance to play it, but I've heard they're doing better too); we now have a chance to actually kill things in PvP. I love the instant Lava Burst procs and the potential for more burst via cooldowns.

I hate the fact that Elemental still runs out of mana so fast though. Boomkins finally had a change and they are pretty much incapable of running out of mana now no matter how many dps OR healing spells they spam; why not give the same treatment to Elemental shamans? I think the mana gain from Thunderstorm should be GREATLY improved, or there needs to be a large mana return from Fulmination added into the game. Ele shamans should NOT be running out of mana just from dpsing, let alone from casting a few heals.

Resto is pretty much the same as ever with hardly any changes, so naturally we're still trying to get a tank cooldown and VIABLE spread raid healing (the glyph of Chaining right now is terrible for raid healing simply because there's a 6.5 second gap in between each Chain Heal if you use it on cooldown). The new Riptide glyph is very good -- so much so that it might be necessary -- but I really like having the OPTION to take the glyph so I don't have to have it for, say, PvP.

We're still largely behind in CC as a class. With MoP, a lot of classes gained more CC -- who already had more than we do, at that -- and even had their own CC improved. I think it's time we get a new form of CC so we stay competitive in end-game PvP. I am very worried that we will fall behind again if we don't have something to keep up with the other classes, whether it's a stun that we can actually GET off (Capacitor totem, your cast time saddens me) or an AoE freezing spell, as I mention below.


The new totem design is great; I love having meaningful cooldown totems to put down. However, the system itself doesn't feel complete. It doesn't feel quite right that fire totems aren't cooldown-centric like the rest of our totems. If Searing Flames is holding us back, they can tie it into something else and then finally change our fire totems to be meaningful too, such as damage increasers like Thrall's totem or cauterizing heals/damage. Fun things.

We only have one water totem (two if you count Mana Tide, which we have to talent into), while we have at least 3 totems in every other slot. We should have at least one other water totem in the arsenal to even it out a little. It could even fix certain class issues -- like the fact that we don't have much for CC. An AoE CC (that isn't a root) would be great for a water totem, maybe something kind of like Ring of Frost. Though really I would prefer CC that wasn't attached to totems that die so fast...

Which leads me to the fact that our totems still die way too easily. People can simply turn around an one-or two-shot our totems (if you have the glyph, which was nerfed for some reason) with white hits still... now that totems are attached to meaningful cooldowns, they shouldn't be killed so easily. I think we should be given a cooldown to make our totems invincible/invisible for a short time to at least try to combat this, or the HP needs to be increased by a lot. A stoneclaw effect with a 100% chance to stun someone when they attack our totems would be another alternative.

Talents up next!

Game Designer
Target Source
#314 - 2012/05/22 05:53:00 PM
Just to touch on a few points here:

  • "Resto shaman glyphs have too much of a penalty."This is a fair concern. We don't want glyphs to be no-brainers. Often this means giving a powerful bonus a penalty that offsets that bonus, hopefully in interesting ways. "Increases duration and cooldown," is a common one. Glyph of Lightning Bolt would be a no-brainer without some kind of offset. However, because there are only 3 glyph slots, choosing a glyph for a more situational spell can itself be a sufficient cost. We've taken a look at the Resto glyphs recently to make sure they feel more equitable.

  • "Telluric Currents is mandatory."We definitely don't want that to be the case. To be fair, it wasn't mandatory early on in Cataclysm, but as Intellect-based mana regen increased, it became better and better. By having Intellect no longer interact with mana pools, we'll improve this situation somewhat, but we'll take a look at it above and beyond that.

  • "Enhance doesn't value haste enough."Yes, this is something we want to address. Ultimately, we'd like to deliver on the goal of "more haste lets you do more stuff," but that's challenging giving how many buttons Enhance is already using. It's better than it used to be with the addition of Ascendance, but it's not quite good enough yet.

  • "Why the long cooldown on Reincarnate?"We debated this for awhile, but ultimately decided that having every shaman in a raid being able to stand up every fight would be really powerful and an actual encounter balance problem for us. We could make the ankh count against the battle rez counter, but that would be pretty mean. We think the best design is to leave it at a long-cooldown. Sometimes you may not want to blow it if you think the fight is going to be a wipe.

  • "Thou shalt not use AE abilities on a single-target fight."I'm going to address this because it's of potential interest to more than just shaman (and frankly, issues with broad appeal are the ones I prefer to address). I think the "law" here has gotten oversold a bit, and maybe that's my fault.

    There are two essential problems here we wanted to fix. One is that it's fun when you hit different buttons on AE fights. That just keeps combat more interesting. The second, more balance-related issue, is that when say warriors used Whirlwind so much on single-target fights and multi-target fights, then warrior damage just skyrocketed whenever there was an opportunity to AE. Meanwhile the mage just had to channel Blizzard or something. The game is in a very different place these days and every spec has some variety in how they AE. Frost DKs use Howling Blast and Protection warriors use Thunder Clap even on single targets.

    It's fine for Lava Lash / Flame Shock to get used for both single target and AE. There are some situations where breaking CC or hitting the wrong target is a really bad idea. In those situations, you can try to move out of the way or just not Lava Lash (or not use Flame Shock). The risk of hitting the wrong target has always existed in WoW and it's one of those points of skill differentiation between average players and experts. We don't want a world where there is never any risk of breaking CC or hitting the wrong target. That's dull. In those very rare situations (say Spine of Deathwing) where maximum DPS and hitting the right target are both extremely critical, you can use the glyph.

  • avatar
    Game Designer
    Target Source
    #315 - 2012/05/22 05:54:00 PM
  • "Why so few shaman changes?"I know players eagerly tear into the latest beta changes like opening birthday presents. What goodies did the designers leave for us today? And to be fair, it's really rewarding for designers to make a change that they know players will get excited about. There is a lot of positive reinforcement there.

    But remember, change is not the goal. Fun is the goal. It is not our intention to introduce crazy new things every beta build. We are overwhelmingly focused on the end result. All of the developers are well accustomed with the phenomenon where we make changes early in an expansion and those classes get excited, but then what was shiny and new starts to be less shiny and new as time goes on and they see other classes get changes. If you are like most players, newness wears off quickly -- that's not what is going to keep you playing two months after Mists ships. It's more likely to be a very slippery, very subjective "I am having fun playing my character" sentiment that can keep you engaged.

    If there are things you still don't find fun about your class (whatever class it is) please feel free to keep bringing them up. But don't evaluate beta notes as some kind of thermometer about how much we love or hate your class. We love them all. :)

  • "OMG, GC didn't address the most important issue!"I don't have the bandwidth to answer everything, but rest assured we read it all. If there is something particularly important to you for us to address, feel free to keep bringing it up (without just "bumps" please).