1 25 Man Raid = 50% of 1 10 man. 2 10s = 100%

#0 - June 14, 2010, 4:38 p.m.

More loot then a 25, and leaves 5 more people free, meaning a 3rd 5 man for 150% more loot then a single 10 man and 100% more loot then a 25 man.

So basically, if as a 25 man raiding guild we run 3 10 mans until we have geared to an acceptable standerd for the progression 25 man end boss, have learned all the encounter mechanics and have gained 100% more loot then running the 25 man content we are doing things correctly under the future model?

We then complete the raid instance, via those last 2 bosses, since we can reform the 25 man raid due to the lockouts all being viable with the So long as the # of bosses down are equal rule coming into play and not requiring all the same ideas and complete the final boss, and the "Heroic" boss without losing too much loot?

If someone can point out for me, the reason to run 1 25 man raid, instead of 2-3 10 man raids with all loot being the same, and with the # of drops being doubled in 2 10 mans and only multiplied by .5 in the 25, I would be happy.

Bornakk

#14 - June 14, 2010, 5:02 p.m.

The amount of gear in the 25 person raids will be roughly equivalent on per-person basis to the 10 person raids. One thing to keep in mind it that we don't plan to allow players to upshift from 10s to 25s, only downshift from 25s to 10s on a given week.

Bornakk

#66 - June 14, 2010, 5:28 p.m.

Q u o t e:

The statements beforehand said that 25person would have more gear per person than 10s, so I wonder if "roughly equivalent" indicates a change in plans, or just not wanting to commit yet to either "exactly the same" or "more".

The number 6 per boss was being mentioned I believe, so slightly more I guess, but anything can change in testing so I wouldn't say that it is set in stone. But we all know you guys won't call us out if anything changes during a beta, right? :)

Bornakk

#71 - June 14, 2010, 5:31 p.m.

Q u o t e:

So basically there will be no real incentive (gear-wise at least) to run 25 man raids.

There are rewards like badges/gold for the additional coordination involved, but we are trying to avoid having gear be the reason that one style is better than the other.

Bornakk

#108 - June 14, 2010, 5:46 p.m.

Q u o t e:

Thank you Bornakk for that potential clarification.

I was a little worried that 25 man raiding would be 5 item per boss, with 50% increase in Badge/Point income.

What is the problem here? Most 25 man guilds need a roster of ~30 people to be safely sustainable. At some point a guild will not have use for Badge/PvE Points anymore because it will be devauled, and the only value from bosses becomes the actual gear they drop. If the boss only were to drop 5 items, then there would be more incentive to split into three 10 mans to obtain 6 items per boss. I just find it a little silly that a 25 man guild raiding the instance for a while will they decide there is more value splitting into 10 mans until the next raid tier.

This is also ignoring the fact that if you run 10 mans you can create legendaries quicker (unless you slow the progression of them in 10 mans), and your guild has a higher chance of obtaining that amazing trinket 2-3 times a week with 10 mans, while only once in 25 man.

Don't forget though that if the same items are dropping then it's likely the same loot tables. In the current game the 25-raid loot tables are much better than the 10s. So while the guild has more chances of getting the amazing trinket, the chance per raid is lower.

How legendaries will work out on a chance to obtain the items has yet to be determined. We are trying to avoid having one raid be the defacto better way to go simply based on gear and leave it up to the way players want to play.

Bornakk

#116 - June 14, 2010, 5:52 p.m.

Q u o t e:

Of course Bornakk, I have a question, how would you be able to handle the content pacing if a 25 man raid receives 6 pieces of loot per boss? Do you plan on implementing a lot of superfluous Spellpower plate? I remember farming illidan before funwell and I am currently experiencing the joy of farming arthas. 100% gearing players months before new content is not a fun prospect.

I get you that 6 is a very loose number, but have you considered that running a 25 man could become detrimental just due to 100% geared players burning out with nothing to shoot for?

I'll give you this as a legitimate concern. As much as we'd love to complete patches/content updates faster, we can't release them until we feel they are ready. If you are only playing one character and your guild powers through normal modes really quickly and doesn't aim for heroics, (or maybe you power through heroics), you may end up with some spare time. Hopefully you'll be using that time to do some Rated BGs, guild achievements, or working on the new "Algalon" boss (if available). There will be a lot of things to do but if you limit yourself to a certain aspect then you may finish it pretty quickly, but I'm not sure if this is really a new thing.

Bornakk

#193 - June 14, 2010, 7:36 p.m.

Q u o t e:

So basically, if you're a person whose guild focuses primarily on pushing the limits of end-game PvE progression, you will be very bored with this expansion. Gotcha.

Those people have been bored at various times since Molten Core. Your point?