#408 - May 11, 2010, 9:32 p.m.
Q u o t e:
Just curious, would you ever consider simply removing the rage cost penalty altogether, and just make it a 10 seconds, once per minute buff when you get 100 rage?
It might not help us dump rage in that scenario, but it still gives us a "bonus" when we're overflowing with rage we can't spend, and it's not like being rage capped is hurting us in any way.
Yeah, that's a possible implementation. It might risk warriors feeling the correct way to play is to get up to 100 rage before they can start having fun.
Q u o t e:
Rage feels - right now - very much RNG, and you're giving us something that gives us a little extra damage and a pretty hefty penalty when we get lucky. Yes, I know the numbers are up in the air, but that's the cause of the complaint imo. Hitting the right "feel" with crit thrown into the mix is going to be fun.
It's going to feel a lot less RNG when rage generation is tied to hitting and not to doing damage. We think we need to keep a little of the random element though. If it becomes very predictable, then it feels too much like energy and we might as well just call it that.
Q u o t e:
The problem with this is, as others have pointed out, it doesn't take into account how much rage you're actually overflowing.
I understand that's a concern, but you're going to have to walk me through why it's a concern. What is the scenario in which doing a lot of damage now but potentially less damage later is a lot worse than doing average damage constantly? That is also assuming you will be doing less damage later, but the reality of encounters is you can't really plan around your "rage budget" for the fight. Sometimes you have a lot and sometimes you have less and you work around that. I can't really imagine the scenario in which you tell yourself "Well, I'm going to be coming up on a dry spell so I need to keep some rage in reserve." Even when those cases do exist (you have to move a lot maybe?) it seems like Inner Rage going over 100 still only helps you then because you are maximizing your damage per rage conversion to the time at which you are actually dealing damage.
Q u o t e:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but we all thought IR was a temporal buff that multiplied rage costs for X number of seconds. Which kind of blows, honestly. However, if IR is not based on time and instead stays active until it consumes 30 extra rage, that's pretty awesome. It's basically a 15% damage cooldown that costs 30 rage, which is a non-issue if you're riding 100 to begin with, which is I think what you're saying and is where the confusion lies.
It has no duration, at least currently. It shuts itself off when your rage is "too low." At the moment, that too low number is 30. If you still generate a lot of rage while it is active, then it could consume far more than 70 rage.
Q u o t e:
If the intent of IR is to give warriors a sense of a "limit breaker" or anything like that, leaving the warrior without rage at all is flawed.
If your rage is gone, it's because you spent it. If you want to conserve rage for some reason, stop pushing buttons. If you want to hit weaker for some reason, I suppose you could turn Inner Rage off, but I think you'd be better off just not pushing attacks.
Q u o t e:
My argument is less granular than that. It's that: You have abilities that you can control that convert rage-damage (HS). So why risk a situation where IR might starve you and you have virtually no control.
Because we don't think HS is sufficient for every situation. But what confuses me is on the one hand you're saying HS gives you control over rage because you decide when to use it, but Inner Rage doesn't give you control because you can't decide when to use it. If you don't want to spend rage, don't push buttons when it procs. If you want to spend rage but leave some reserves, push only some buttons when it procs. It's not that different from how you decide when to use Heroic Strike.
Q u o t e:
So yes, there are “regularly” situations where you need to store as much as 75 rage (and even more in certain circumstances, Shield bash a caster add pushes this to 85).
Then push only 2 yellow attacks once Inner Rage procs instead of 3. It's totally in your control whether you leave a reserve of 75 rage or not.
Q u o t e:
I sincerely hope im wrong, but i have no faith in changes like this.
Okay, but then your contribution to discussions like this is going to be limited, because we can assume your response to anything is going to be "change is scary." That's a valid way to feel, but it's an expansion and we're going to make changes. Being too scared of failure to leave a broken system like rage generation in place as is isn't a responsible way for us to manage the game.
Q u o t e:
Rage starvation while tanking something is a global concern. Failing to to think ahead to your next task and store some rage to perform it is a single player's concern.
Right, and rage starvation while tanking is almost entirely a problem with avoiding too much damage or not generating enough rage while off-tanking.
Q u o t e:
I do have questions for GC though: how will Inner Rage affect Heroic Strike and Execute? Will it be +50% to the total rage cost (45) or will it be +50% to the base cost with +15 rage added afterward (37)? How will the extra rage burn factor into the bonus damage?
Probably the former. We'd calculate the Heroic Strike damage as an ability and then apply the Inner Rage bonus. That's the kind of thing upon which we could iterate though.
Q u o t e:
Not that there is anything wrong with using IS during Shattered halls, but it's hardly an aoe tanking ability.
This again? The context wasn't "What are the warrior tanking abilities?" It was a fairly contrived situation where the warrior said TC and everything else was on cooldown and adds were streaming in so there was nothing that could conceivably be done except wipe. If you aren't willing to use all your tools before wiping, then I'm not sure I'd want you to tank for me. :)
Q u o t e:
1) It's tuned such that its so nice to have, they warriors will want to regularly cap their rage. No one likes a mechanic that encourages them to do nothing.
2) It's tuned such that its not nice enough to want to cap your rage, thus, it will suck. When one does accidently cap the rage, they'll be kicked in the shins because now all their abilities cost more.
I still don't think many see this as possibly:
3) Capping rage is not something you will want to do on purpose, but if you do, instead of getting nothing for it, you get a little something.
Yeah. Our hope is that the damage bonus doesn't encourage #1. Think of it like Primal Precision or Quick Recovery. Druids and rogues don't manage their rotations around trying to use that talent, but they're glad when it works for them. Similarly if warriors hit a point where rage comes in faster than they can spend it, then they can do extra damage for more rage until they come back down to Earth again.
As I said earlier in this thread, it's possible that HS alone will be enough of a raid dump that you'll never see Inner Rage going off (in which case we could probably do away with the ability). We don't think that's likely though.