#0 - Feb. 7, 2007, 2:03 p.m.
I am trying to sum up the concerns I have read from the constructive, and unfortunatly a lot of non-constructive posts about the rogue class, PvE wise. I will restrict myself to PvE, because I quite frankly see no problem in PvP, and with CloS and Deadly Throw I feel we are more than fine there now. PvE wise however, many people feel we are lacking. Therefore, here is our problem presented to you on a black platter which constantly logs me out (I am re-writing this post for the 2nd time now). Please note that this is not a nerf druids/shamans/mages/warlocks or any other class type of post. I feel these classes are fine now, and they do not deserve anymore nerfing than they may or may not have recieved. Anyhow, without further adue, our (if I may speak for the rest) concerns:
1. DPS & the utility that comes with it:
We are severely lacking in the DPS department, especially as a class that grants nothing more to a raid than the gauruntee of taking down a boss that much faster. The problem is, with all the recent buffs to other classes, and none (dare I say even a nerf to us because of weapon skill) to ours, we do not help to take down a boss that much faster. Our single target DPS may still remain unbeaten, the problem is that we are marginally better at DPS than other DPS orientated classes or even hybrid classes that spec for DPS. An example would be an enhancement shaman. There DPS might not be better than ours, but the difference is so small that it would make no sence in bringing a rogue to a raid, since a shaman can still step back and throw in a quick heal when needed, let alone the totems/aura's they provide to everyone. A warlock might not do a lot more damage than we do, but they can banish, send a pet to tank if needed, and most of all can soulstone to prevent an utter wipe.
What I'm trying to say here is that our single target DPS is not high enough to be taken over any other class that has more utility than we do, whereas our only utility so to speak is our DPS. And yes, I have done Karazhan.
2. Sustaining our DPS:
In general, for a rogue to top the damage meters he has to work a lot more than any ranged DPS class. We have to get up-close and-personal with the enemy at all times to dish out our damage. The problem is ofcourse that when we do this, we eat AoE attacks or even Cleaves (even if we are behind the enemy), or in some occasions terrain damage (maiden of virtue for example). Where a mage can use anything from a druids innervate (ok this is highly unlikely) to mana potions or his mana ruby's, we have nothing to rely on more than the occasional heal, our gimped dodge chance or (and this is the usual cenario) running back and bandaging. The latter ofcourse, decreases our DPS, while ranged DPS stays the same.
Possible solutions:
1. Add some utility to rogues:
Give us something to bring to a raid that would make it worth it to have a rogue. I don't mean something like a +5% crit aura because there are enough of these kinds of buffs, but more like something along the lines of a vitally important soulstone (or divine intervention).
2. Buff our DPS:
I realise this is a hard thing to do, but it would in my opinion be the most viable option, since many people pre 2.0 rolled a rogue for highest single target DPS. This would be a hard thing to do because it has the threat of increasing our PvP viability even more, something where I feel we are finally on par with against other classes. My suggestion is some sort of debuff on an enemy in the following form:
Constantly attack one specific enemy for a period of 1/1.5/2 minutes and the enemy will recieve a debuff, increasing all rogues attack power by 150/175/200%.
We are gear dependant. We have the highest chance of dieing in a raid. We can be mana eaters. We eat all forms of enemy AoE attacks, but in return we used to give by far the most raw damage on a single enemy in the game. This may still remain true, but only by such a small amount that rogues are becoming unworthy of raid spots.
If you feel I left an important concern out, would like to add to one, or input a suggestion on a possible solution, please feel free to post here and I will edit this main post if with your input.
Conclusions so far:
First off; The amount of concerned and suggestive replies shows that the Rogue community is almost pretty single minded on this issue: With the exception of the odd 1 or 2 rogue in this thread, everyone feels that we need a PvE buff.
After going through all the input/suggestions I think it's also safe to say that no rogue would want utility (in the form of a buff/aura) over a DPS buff. Many rogues believe that our utility is the highest single target DPS there is, and at the moment, as discussed before, this is so marginal that our utility as a class at whole is fading. Many people rolled a rogue so that they can purely do raw damage on a boss, and not be someone who has to buff other classes or is brought along as a ''key to open this door''.
As you can see (and I am directing this towards blizz/gm's), the pain of the Weapon Skill nerf still lingers thoroughly on the rogue forums, more than any other class forums. We have felt this nerf the most of all, and even tho I can already guess that Blizzard won't bring the old system back, I do think it is worth mentioning, specifically because some kind of compensation should be made, for we have recieved none.
The weapon skill nerf however did bring something posetive along with it; other talent tree's became more viable for PvE. While this is arguably quite a good thing, it also seems somewhat unfair. Combat for example is purely a PvE tree, with about 1 useful PvP skill (Riposte). Generally speaking, if a rogue specs in this tree s/he loses a huge advantage over other classes that you get from tree's such as assasination or ofcourse, subtlety. At the moment, you can spec into assassination for mutilate, do roughly the same (And I've personally seen higher) as full combat, and still have quite the edge over other classes in PvP. This combination seems somewhat unfair, and makes Combat kind of...obsolete? (I know thats a bit of exaggeration but I can't find another word for it).
There have been TONS and TONS of great suggestions on what could help the rogue class. I recommend that you (be you a player or a blizzard staff member/GM) read through them. I am afraid that if I were to edit them on the main post I would leave some good suggestions out, which is the last thing I want happening.
Thanks for reading til' the bottom,
Creaven~
