So. Farewell Then, Divine Shield.

#0 - Sept. 12, 2006, 2:01 p.m.
Blizzard Post
Last Resort of
Paladins Everywhere.

Where once immunity.
To sin was,
Had.

Now there is only
Laugh Out Loud.


- E.J. Thribb (17 1/2)


Right. I've been trying to think this one through for a while, but words have failed me for a while.

Now, in general, paladins have suffered fairly badly at the hands of class balance. We suffered the largest single nerf in the game's history (Holy Strike would be the most powerful melee attack in the game as of this point, were it still here). We had the mixed blessing of 1.9 which while making Retribution paladins actually viable, destroyed the traditional and far more powerful Protection specced Reckadin, which would have remained viable well into 1.12 even with the changes to Vengeance.

However, this change to Divine Shield is too large. Divine Shield cannot and should not be dispelled by anything.

Blizzard, you won't read this of course, because it's rare I see any kind of official response after such a gigantic change in the immediate time after the announcement, but I am going to say something pretty simple.

You cannot fundamentally change a crowning ability of a class without giving something in return. If Divine Shield is now dispellable by any class that is player controlled, there will be some clever player out there who will find a way to use it against us. Meaning they will do so without firing Unstable Affliction, or anything of that nature. The fact it is targetted GUARENTEES THAT. You cannot even think about it in the hands of a nub because how many people fear a nub paladin or a nub warrior? No one. The class isn't balanced around stupid people, it's balanced around smart people.

But wait, RheyRhey, other classes have class defining abilities that can be dispelled and interrupted too? Doesn't that make you a nub?

No, sweetheart, no it doesn't. Why can I say that?

Stealth, while it can be countered, has very specific rules governing its operation. Stealth, for example, is guarenteed to be broken by DoTs, but while in stealth a rogue is capable of numerous special abilities that initiate or break the flow of combat. A rogue can always, through one method or another to reenter stealth. This also does not account for the fact that Stealth is also only one aspect of their class. A rogue will always know of the circumstances in which Stealth is functional, what they can do in stealth.

Every class defining ability has certain limitations that are commonly known but also certain guarentees. Stealth is permanently availible out of combat and can be entered in combat using a special ability. It enables new abilities. Warrior stances are immutable. They can't be dispelled, they can be changed, but changing them causes rage loss. Druid shapeshifting has numerous boons. While it disables spells in some forms it provides benefits that the druid can rely upon. Priests and mages both have multiple spell schools they can fall back on in the case of one of them being locked up, each with multiple controlled DPS abilities, if not healing abilities.

Why doesn't Divine Shield fit in anymore? The reason why is because in order for Divine Shield to work, a CLASS has to not be present. Seriously. An entire class has to not be around at that time. Which is, as they say, about as likely to happen as the moon exploding due to a duststorm in the Saraha.

Some of these abilities are counterable. Warlock pets are obviously killable, so are totems (although not through a preferred method) however one thing is in common for all these abilities (except of course, Divine Shield).

The class can function without them.

A shaman can drop a Grounding Totem at a moment's notice and absorb a pyroblast in mid air and then have it wanded without losing anything. Once that Pyro is down, it's function is complete. They can plan ahead. A warlock can still function without a pet by relying on their burst DPS. A mage can function without Pyroblast or Iceblock or Arcane Power. While a hunter has a dead zone they have multiple abilities to expand the distance between them and their enemy or outright kill them before they can respond again.

The point is, no class is reliant on a single given ability to perform their class role in PvP as a paladin is. Divine Shield is what makes a paladin what they are. We suffer through long cast time heals for Divine Shield. We suffer through low DPS for Divine Shield. We have no ranged abilities due to Divine Shield.

ALL OUR ABILITIES ARE TIED INTO AND BALANCED VIA DIVINE SHIELD. It is so obvious it hurts.

So if, infact, a priest, even by luck, can dispel a class defining ability, with a five minute cooldown and leave a paladin TOTALLY DEFENSELESS, then it is time the class changed and Divine Shield was moved to a lesser roll.

Meaning we get faster, more powerful heals.
Meaning we hit like holy warriors should.

Meaning we are what we should have been in the first place.
#121 - Sept. 19, 2006, 10:52 a.m.
Blizzard Post
Hello again.

Just wanted to remind you that the alpha testing is just that - testing. If the developers discover that something is totally overpowered or extremely nerfed - then there is still time to make changes.

Also try to see what exactly is proposed here - it's a level 70 priest spell that takes over a thousand mana to cast. As the previous poster said, the blood elf paladins will have the blood elf racial to use as well.

Just trying to make it a little less black and white here, we have to wait and see how it actually works when we test this.
#139 - Sept. 19, 2006, 12:54 p.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:
And we can't be anything but dubious about how exactly the developers will discover this. There appears to be absolutely no Blizzard presence that plays a Paladin in PvE, let alone PvP and group PvP.

All we're asking for is a dialogue with a Blizzard Developer that has actually played the Paladin class to level 60, and have played group PvP. We'd even be satisfied if a dev said to us "Guys, I have a 60 Paladin, and I play PvP, this isn't a problem because of x and y".

All we get at the moment is stoney silence, making us shout louder and angrier...

P.S - hope you're feeling better now.


You can't speak directly to the developers unfortunately, since they are based in the US (and probably busy with other stuff). This is why we CM:s are here, to try to act like a link between the developers and players. Admittedly I don't have a level 60 paladin (yet, working on it), but to be honest I don't need one to be able to read your opinions and forward them.

I just don't think it's the end of the world as we know it (well it doesn't have to be), but as I said it is still under testing.
#143 - Sept. 19, 2006, 1:33 p.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:

Thanks for responding at least :) this is how much we liked fangtooth: http://video.google.pl/videoplay?docid=6309808024331178619&q=warcraft


Ehe.
#168 - Sept. 20, 2006, 2:41 p.m.
Blizzard Post
Just a quick reply to your questions Arthouros:

1. It seems like all of you think that no one at Blizzard play have ever played a paladin, and that's simply not true. I have a lot of colleagues who play paladins (level 60:ies I might add). I don't know how it it in the US of course since I'm not based there, but I can only imagine it's the same there.

2. Well I expected some flaming to be honest, it's part of the job ;)

3. I will definitely make sure I know what I'm talking about before posting here... But just because I don't have a level 60 yet, it doesn't mean I don't know anything at all about the paladin class. I just need to learn even more, hopefully with some help from your feedback as well.

4. I am sure even alliance paladins can think of a way to survive a bubble dispel, still in testing as previously stated.

5. Same as 1. It's simply a wrong image you have, that everyone hates paladins. Of course we care about the game, all parts of it.
#236 - Sept. 22, 2006, 4 p.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:
You're scaring him/her/it with that video!


The cow found it amusing.

Saw the topic about Paladin Class Concerns yesterday and stickied it, a very nice initiative.

Have a nice weekend!