Regional FlagTBC Hunter concerns V3 - OLDSource
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Lactose
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#0 - 2007/01/13 02:48:29 PM
PLEASE DO NOT POST IN THIS THREAD ANYMORE, REDIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO THE NEW VERSION: http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=285259623

A list containing some concerns, questions and comments regarding the TBC Hunter.
While addressing every concern in as much detail would take a lot of time, some (developer) feedback would be most welcome =)

Please do not turn this into a suggestion thread, or start arguing / flaming each other. Also, keep on topic please =)


1. Itemization, Agility, (Ranged) Attack Power and Crit
a) With hunters no longer being so focused on Agility heavy gear, is there any plan of introducing more items with Ranged Attack Power instead of only Attack Power to make certain items more geared towards hunters? For example an item with +x Attack Power, +y Ranged Attack Power [+other stats].

FEEDBACK:
There are currently no plans for adding more hunter specific items with focus on ranged attack power, but this is a good idea that could prove useful in the future.



b) With the different builds focusing on different parts of the Hunter class, different stats are interesting based on stats. The current raid sets seem to be very Marksman-centric, leaving much to be desired from other builds.

FEEDBACK:
The developers create items for what they feel the class needs or wants the most, however if something does seem inadequate or insufficient in some regards, then those things would be good subjects for adjustments or changes. In this particular case it is possible that the developers would want to change a talent (ie: Lightning Reflexes) to mesh better with the itemization.



2. Talents
Currently, both the Marksman tree and the Beast Mastery tree seem to be very viable. Survival seems to be falling a bit behind.

FEEDBACK:
The developers agree with this observation. They feel that the Survival tree needs some raid help, mostly because of changes to itemization/Lightning Reflexes.



a) With the reduced Agility score, and the change making us gain only 1 Ranged Attack Power per Agility, Lightning Reflexes has lost a lot of its power, even taking the improved Crit / Agility into consideration.
In addition, the tree itself seems too focused around procs. Exposed Weakness not only needs a crit, but it then also has to actually proc of the crit to give the damage boost. Furthermore, it adds Attack Power based on the hunter's Agility, which, as mentioned, has dropped quite a bit. This might become less of a concern at endgame with high tiered sets, but it's still a valid concern for a long time, it seems.

Additionally, both the Beast Mastery tree and the Marksman tree buffs the pet to certain degrees (Beast Mastery through pure pet stuff, Marksman through increased RAP which is scaled to pet). Survival seems very lacking in this area.

All in all the Survival tree seems unfocused, some PvE-focused talents, some more PvP-focused, but without being as fluid as for example the Marksman tree. This might also stem from having 4 first tier talents and 3 second tier talents; it seems a bit of a mess. The 41-point talent also seems a bit underwhelming, since hunters don't really have that many long-cooldown abilities. Any thoughts on possibly improving or streamlining the talent tree? Examples here would be changing Lightning Reflexes, condensing the earlier tiers, making the following tiers less proc based... It is not doomed in any way, but I still think it could use some improvement, especially when compared to the other trees.

FEEDBACK:
Some useful changes should hopefully be made to the Survival tree in order to solve these issues. That being said, you should not expect any full class revamp or full talent reviews.



b) The Marksman tree seems, as I mentioned, pretty decent. There are some talents seeming a bit disharmonious to me personally, and I'll mention them briefly: Mortal Shots needing Aimed Shot, Trueshot Aura requiring Scatter Shot, Concussive Barrage seems a bit lackluster (what's its viability in endgame and bosses, will it boost Steady Shot, or is stuff immune?), as does Combat Experience (with current gear at least). Other than those, I personally have no major gripes with the tree.

FEEDBACK:
The developers agree with this. The Marksman tree isn't perfect, but it is good enough for now :-)



c) I haven't played around too much with Beast Mastery, so I won't mention anything specific for now. It seems pretty decent, both for grinding, PvP and instances. Glancing and resist rates (for some skills) might become an issue if we have no way of mitigating damage lost, though. Not purely a Beast Mastery concern, but builds heavily centered in this tree will feel its effect more. However, all in all, the viability of a tree like this depends heavily on my next concerns.


3. Pets
a) How well a pet-focused build handles itself falls heavily on the shoulders of the pet. However, pets are a part of the Hunter class, regardless of build. While the stat scaling is a good start, I don't think it's enough in many cases. Are there plans on adding more survivability to pets? Either directly, by immunity to certain attacks (mostly PvE), avoidance, or more indirectly shared healing with the hunter, etc?

FEEDBACK:
It is quite possible that the developers will improve the survivability of pets, but they have concerns regarding how increased pet survivability will influence PvP. The developers are very careful about adding too much to survivability, as they do not wish for the pets to be overpowered in PvP.



b) Related to encounter design, and more of a plea: Please remember our pets when designing encounters. Not only in terms of buffs given in the encounter, but also debuffs, healing, and, maybe more importantly, survivability. As it stands, several bosses have been downright pet-killers - especially devastating for a Beast Mastery Hunter, but noticable for any spec.

FEEDBACK:
These are valid concerns and this might be something that the developers will improve on.



c) Pets do not seem to gain anything from items giving the master Crit rating, Hit rating, etc. This seems counterintuitive to a degree, seeing as a item with higher item level and better stats could actually prove to be a downgrade when you consider what your pet gains as well. Intended?

FEEDBACK:
Yes it is intended; however the developers are keeping an eye on this, so this might be changed in the future.



d) Pet buffs. Would it be possible to let pets either be counted together with other pets, or together with warriors / rogues for Greater Blessings? As it is, they have to be individually buffed.

FEEDBACK:
This might be possible, the developers will look into this.



e) The character stat screen has received a overhaul, becoming much more detailed and useful (although the Hit section doesn't include anything regarding Hit gained from pure +Hit%, like talents). Would a similar revamp of the pet stat screen be possible?

FEEDBACK:
This is also possible and the developers will look into this as well. Still too early to say what patch it would get into however.



f) Pets still seem to have trouble attacking moving targets.

g) It's hard (impossible) to keep track of a pet's loyalty progress. Anything planned to make this less shrouded in mystery?

FEEDBACK:
This is a valid concern. There are no immediate plans as of yet, however this could certainly use improvement.

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Blue Poster
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#118 - 2007/02/19 02:39:59 PM
Q u o t e:
A list containing some concerns, questions and comments regarding the TBC Hunter.
While addressing every concern in as much detail would take a lot of time, some (developer) feedback would be most welcome =)


It is always nice to gather feedback from threads like this one. I love the constructive presentation and the great overview of topics, so it is most certainly safe to say that this is a great thread indeed. Nice work Lactose :-)

Let's see if we can get some developer feedback for at least some of the concerns and questions listed in this thread. :-)

Q u o t e:
With The Burning Crusade being out, I'm guessing the developers have time to look into this and give some answers / comments soon =)


The developers are a busy bunch of people and they have lots of stuff they need to look into, so please be aware that we will not be able to guarantee that we will have any feedback / answers / comments available for you at any time soon.

Q u o t e:
Please do not turn this into a suggestion thread, or start arguing / flaming each other. Also, keep on topic please =)


I second that request. :-)

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Blue Poster
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#123 - 2007/02/19 07:29:57 PM
Q u o t e:
Always nice to hear, since it what I set out to do ;)Sounds good :)Fully understandable. And regardless, there's soon, and there's Blizzard soonâ„¢ :P


I know... the whole 'soon' thing can be such a pain ;-)

Q u o t e:
If you're still around, should we try to keep this thread bumped somehow for it to be easily accessible, or would that be frowned upon?


I realise and respect that many of the concerns and questions listed in this thread are important for a big part of the hunter community that are using these forums, so I can most surely understand your wish for having it positioned on the first page until you get some relevant feedback from the developers. Excessive bumping is not required though, because we will reply in this thread whenever we get some answers and comments from the developers. That being said I can't see any problem giving this thread the occasional bump... But please try to avoid bump spamming :-)


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Blue Poster
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#192 - 2007/03/09 03:26:08 PM
Hi everybody :-)

Good news... We have received some feedback from the developers today, which means that we now have a few answers for some of the concerns & questions posted in this thread. Here we go:

Q u o t e:

1. Itemization, Agility, (Ranged) Attack Power and Crit
a) With hunters no longer being so focused on Agility heavy gear, is there any plan of introducing more items with Ranged Attack Power instead of only Attack Power to make certain items more geared towards hunters? For example an item with +x Attack Power, +y Ranged Attack Power [+other stats].


There are currently no plans for adding more hunter specific items with focus on ranged attack power, but this is a good idea that could prove useful in the future.

Q u o t e:
b) With the different builds focusing on different parts of the Hunter class, different stats are interesting based on stats. The current raid sets seem to be very Marksman-centric, leaving much to be desired from other builds.


The developers create items for what they feel the class needs or wants the most, however if something does seem inadequate or insufficient in some regards, then those things would be good subjects for adjustments or changes. In this particular case it is possible that the developers would want to change a talent (ie: Lightning Reflexes) to mesh better with the itemization.

Q u o t e:
2. Talents
Currently, both the Marksman tree and the Beast Mastery tree seem to be very viable. Survival seems to be falling a bit behind.


The developers agree with this observation. They feel that the Survival tree needs some raid help, mostly because of changes to itemization/Lightning Reflexes.

Q u o t e:
All in all the Survival tree seems unfocused, some PvE-focused talents, some more PvP-focused, but without being as fluid as for example the Marksman tree. This might also stem from having 4 first tier talents and 3 second tier talents; it seems a bit of a mess. The 41-point talent also seems a bit underwhelming, since hunters don't really have that many long-cooldown abilities. Any thoughts on possibly improving or streamlining the talent tree?


Some useful changes should hopefully be made to the Survival tree in order to solve these issues. That being said, you should not expect any full class revamp or full talent reviews.

Q u o t e:
b) The Marksman tree seems, as I mentioned, pretty decent. There are some talents seeming a bit disharmonious to me personally, and I'll mention them briefly: Mortal Shots needing Aimed Shot, Trueshot Aura requiring Scatter Shot, Concussive Barrage seems a bit lackluster (what's its viability in endgame and bosses, will it boost Steady Shot, or is stuff immune?), as does Combat Experience (with current gear at least). Other than those, I personally have no major gripes with the tree.


The developers agree with this. The Marksman tree isn't perfect, but it is good enough for now :-)



That is it for now, but there is no need to worry, because we should have some more answers available for you at some time next week :-)

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Blue Poster
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#219 - 2007/03/13 03:57:10 PM
Hi everybody,

We have received some more developer feedback for you this week, which is only a great thing. This means that we should now have answers and feedback for pretty much all of the questions and concerns compiled by Lactose of Talnivarr in the original post of this thread:


Q u o t e:
3. Pets
a) How well a pet-focused build handles itself falls heavily on the shoulders of the pet. However, pets are a part of the Hunter class, regardless of build. While the stat scaling is a good start, I don't think it's enough in many cases. Are there plans on adding more survivability to pets? Either directly, by immunity to certain attacks (mostly PvE), avoidance, or more indirectly shared healing with the hunter, etc?


It is quite possible that the developers will improve the survivability of pets, but they have concerns regarding how increased pet survivability will influence PvP. The developers are very careful about adding too much to survivability, as they do not wish for the pets to be overpowered in PvP.

Q u o t e:
b) Related to encounter design, and more of a plea: Please remember our pets when designing encounters. Not only in terms of buffs given in the encounter, but also debuffs, healing, and, maybe more importantly, survivability. As it stands, several bosses have been downright pet-killers - especially devastating for a Beast Mastery Hunter, but noticable for any spec.


These are valid concerns and this might be something that the developers will improve on.

Q u o t e:
c) Pets do not seem to gain anything from items giving the master Crit rating, Hit rating, etc. This seems counterintuitive to a degree, seeing as a item with higher item level and better stats could actually prove to be a downgrade when you consider what your pet gains as well. Intended?


Yes it is intended; however the developers are keeping an eye on this, so this might be changed in the future.

Q u o t e:
d) Pet buffs. Would it be possible to let pets either be counted together with other pets, or together with warriors / rogues for Greater Blessings? As it is, they have to be individually buffed.


This might be possible, the developers will look into this.

Q u o t e:
e) The character stat screen has received a overhaul, becoming much more detailed and useful (although the Hit section doesn't include anything regarding Hit gained from pure +Hit%, like talents). Would a similar revamp of the pet stat screen be possible?


This is also possible and the developers will look into this as well. Still too early to say what patch it would get into however.

Q u o t e:
g) It's hard (impossible) to keep track of a pet's loyalty progress. Anything planned to make this less shrouded in mystery?


This is a valid concern. There are no immediate plans as of yet, however this could certainly use improvement.

Q u o t e:
4. Abilities and game mechanics
a) Kill Command
Currenly, Kill Command triggers the global cooldown, and has other grievances, making its use seem more limiting than it should be, at least for non-Beastmastery Hunters. It also seems to be counted as a player attack for most things, not a pet attack (not triggering Frenzy, etc). Bugged?


This is working as intended as it is the player sending a “kill command” to the pet. The developers do agree that the ability tends to feel more like it should be a pet ability though, so they can understand the nature of this complaint.

Q u o t e:
c) Feign Death
I After recent changes, resists are checked individually per target. However, if one target out of many resists, we have no way of knowing who resisted and who did not. Having for example a "Resist" appear in the scrolling combat text above the appropriate target would help a lot with identifying the 'resistees'. Messages in the combat log might also be an option, although more prone to spam, and not too good on multiple targets with identical names (often a problem with a boss' adds).
II Any news on when we can anticipate the fix for Feign Death?


The developers agree that this is an issue and they would very much like to see this fixed, however it is not yet possible to say exactly when it will be done.

Q u o t e:
d) Pets currently do not count toward a player's kill (for things like Rapid Killing, trinkets requiring a kill...), even when the player has tagged the mob (i.e. pet not staying on aggressive auto-killing). As a pet class, this seems counter-intuitive. Intentional?


This is already being fixed, and it is expected to be implemented together with patch 2.1.

Q u o t e:
e) Growl
Growl's threat now scales based on the Hunter's Ranged Attack Power. Due to Marksman Hunters having so high an amount of Ranged Attack Power, Beast Mastery pets often aren't able to keep up with the aggro generated. This seems counter-intuitive, possibly have deeper talents of Beast Mastery yield a bonus to Growl threat?


The developers thinks that this is valid feedback, however there is no information available regarding what they will do to address this concern.

Q u o t e:
5. Scaling, other classes and other concerns
a) Where do the developers see hunters in end-game? As a DPS class with other abilities and roles as an addition? How do we compare to other DPS classes, equally geared, in terms of DPS? What can we offer which makes us stand out and a vital part of any balanced group?


The developers see the Hunter class as being a DPS class, which brings other utility abilities with them as an additional benefit. Hunters compare quite well to other DPS classes, but possibly a bit low, however this is something that is being looked at. Things will get adjusted here and there where required.

Q u o t e:
b) Certain parts of the hunter still seem to have no (or limited) scaling: Traps, Mend Pet, stings and ammo. As we hit the level cap, can we expect these aspects to scale upwards as the hunter becomes more powerful?


It is possible that this will happen, however the developers do think that the significance of these things are somewhat questionable.

Q u o t e:
c) Related to ammo, having both more shots available, and faster weapons being much more viable than pre-2.0.1, the amount of ammo you can have in a quiver / ammo pouch seems to deplete too fast. Will there be bigger quivers / ammo pouches, or possibly allowing ammo to stack a bit higher to compensate?


This is a valid concern and the developers are considering what to do about this.


That is all we have for now folks. We will of course keep you posted when we receive more information from the developers.

And one last thing for now; please click on the link below in case you missed the developer feedback from last week:
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=113941397&sid=1&pageNo=10#192

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Blue Poster
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#321 - 2007/04/30 02:28:47 PM
Q u o t e:
I've requested a lock for this thread due to me making a new one shortly =)


request for lock has been granted. Let me know when the new thread is ready :-)