Regional FlagBM vs MM dps - Theorycraft + MathSource
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#0 - 2007/02/22 05:05:23 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Disclaimer & Rambling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm new to the hunter class, and obviously had too much spare time at work today. I have a 60 druid, warlock, warrior, and paladin...and rolled a hunter on a new server when BC hit. I've read a lot of debates about dps comparisons between BM and MM from people with different backgrounds...but I wanted some straight math to look at...something a bit less subjective. Well I couldn't find anything really...was hoping for something similar to what tangedyn did for here's my lame attempt at some theorycraft.

I took two common "raid dps" builds, two basic approaches to perfecting shot rotations for each build, and 1 weapon for each build/rotation combination. I feel like using real items is a more practical approach than inventing "ideal" weapons for each spec and shot rotation.

Please offer corrections and suggestions...I know that there is room for improvement, and mostly just want to give a good starting point to understand the math behind hunter dps. After reading everyone's feedback and re-analyzing the data myself, this post has gone through multiple revisions, and I consider it a work in progress. This thread is mostly to get some practical information generated and shared, and hopefully can help some people out.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Weapon Choices and Shot Rotations ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm going to compare strictly auto->steady-> cycles with both specs, as well as rotations that include auto->steady+arcane->auto with both specs.

The autoshot 0.5s warmup begins after steadyshot begins to cast, so unless you can haste your steadyshot faster than 0.5s, you want to have a final weapon speed as close to 1.5s without going under. Ideally for BM, this means 1.5*1.2*1.15=2.07, and for MM 1.5*1.15=1.725. Unfortunately, there aren't any high-end weapons that match these speeds exactly. So I will compare using the following 2 weapons:

Consortium Blaster
111 - 207 Damage Speed 2.40
(66.2 damage per second)

Wrathfire Hand-Cannon
90 - 168 Damage Speed 2.00
(64.5 damage per second)

Since there aren't any ideal weapons for pure auto->steady weapons yet, another route to go is to try to get a weapon slow enough to fit in an arcane or multi shot behind the steady between your auto shots. For both specs, this is going to mean eating the difference between the 1.5s GCD on steadyshot and it's actual hasted cast time. For both specs we need a post-haste weapon speed of 1.5 (gcd) + 0.5 (multi cast time) + 0.5 (auto shot warmup) = 2.5s. This puts the ideal weapon speed for BM at 3.45s and MM at 2.875s.

Well, there are no weapons this slow for BM. What we can do, however, is abstain from using auto->steady+multi sequences and rather use auto->steady+arcane, followed by auto->multi (gcd from arcane prevents a steady) sequences. To fit in steady+arcane we need a post-haste weapon speed of 1.5 (gcd) + 0.5 (auto shot warmup, arcane shot is theoretically "instant") = 2.0s. This puts the ideal weapon speed at 2.76s.

For both specs, we are going to need a window of 1.5s (gcd on steady) + 0.5s (cast time of multi) + 0.5s (autoshot warmup) = 2.5s. Weapon speed for BM should ideally be 3.5s, and 2.9 for MM. Well there aren't any bows that slow for BM, so if we are adding in extra arcaneshots then the window can drop to 1.5s+0.5s=2.0s and the weapon speed could drop to 2.8.

I'm going to use the following two weapons for comparison because they have similar dps and are similarly available to aquire for pre-raid gearing.

Marksman's Bow
206 - 207 Damage Speed 2.80
(73.8 damage per second)

Wrathtide Longbow
151 - 281 Damage Speed 3.00
(72.0 damage per second)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ General Information ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1800ap from gear and base stats. 300 int. 20% crit.
20% physical dmg mitigation on the target.
No AoE involved.
Halaani Razorshaft Arrows - Adds 38.5 damage per second
15% haste quiver
Level 70 windserpent pet, well fed
20% crit with mortal shots gives the hunter a 26% boost in dps. (0.20*1.3)
Every 1% crit for windserpents gives a 1% boost to melee dps and a 0.5% boost to LB dps.
Pet stays alive and free to dps constantly.
Target is not stunned (or similarly incapacitated), so the pet does not move in and out of range and lose melee dps.

Equations Plaguarized and Used (thanks Lactose)
AutoShot Damage = DamagePercentageBonus*RWSMod*(AmmoDPS*WeaponSpeed + (RAP/14)*WeaponSpeed + WeaponDamage + ScopeDamage)
SteadyShotDamage = DamagePercentageBonus*RWS*(150 + WeaponDamage/WeaponSpeed*2.8 + 0.2*RAP + [Dazed: 175])
ArcaneShotDamage = DamagePercentageBonus*RWSMod*(ArcaneShotBonus + RAP*0.15)
MultiShotDamage = DamagePercentageBonus*RWSMod*(AmmoDPS*WeaponSpeed + (RAP/14)*2.8 + WeaponDamage + ScopeDamage + MultiShotBonus)

Things to do
- Add in the effect of Imp AotH for each spec and rotation

BM spec:
-TBW is basically a 1.5% dps increase for the hunter, 7.5% for the pet.
-Serpent's swiftness gives 20% haste
-Letting Ferocious Inspiration count as a constant 3% boost (won't always be could die)
-DamagePercentageBonus = 1.065 (ferocious inspiration, TBW, focused fire)

MM spec:
-Careful aim = +135 AP
-TSA = +125 AP
-Master Marksman brings total AP up to 2266
-Ranged Weapon Spec is adds 5% dps multiplicatively for the hunter.
-DamagePercentageBonus = 1.071 (RWS * focused fire)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Pet DPS ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

from Lactose:
Q u o t e:

Rank 6 base damage: 99-113
RAP converted to pet spell damage: ~12.5%
Pet spell damage added to Lightning Breath: 1.5/3.5

This is before modifiers (Wind Serpent 7%? damage bonus, damage bonus for being happy, BM talents...)

So, with 1800 RAP, you end up with (average):
106 + 0.125*(1.5/3.5)*1800 = 202ish damage pre-damage bonus stuff.

For GftT dps:
(shots per second) * Hunter Critrate * LB dmg * Pet Crit Bonus

from Aemish:
Q u o t e:

char pet
ap 1346 600
autoshot dps 263.6 118.5

ap2 1146 556
dps2 243.5 113.2

ap3 1084 542
dps3 237.3 111.5

This does not appear perfectly linear, but we can get a pretty close estimate from these values, which include the unleashed fury talent. Using a ratio between ap3 and ap, and assuming a linear correspondence between hunter AP and pet dps, we can determine:
1 hunter AP = 0.222 pet AP
1 hunter AP = 0.027 pet dps

Which gives us:
1800AP pet's base white dps = 130.82
2266AP pet's base white dps = 143.41

For BM, I treat frenzy as a static 30% modifier, since it should be up virtually constantly between melee attacks, natural LB's, and GftT-induced LB's. Serpent's swiftness will be a static 20% modifier. BW can be treated as a 0.75% for pet dmg. With a base critrate of 5% for pets, BM pets receive a 15% modifier to melee dps and a 7.5% modifier to spell dps. MM pets receive a 5% modifier to melee dps and a 2.5% modifier to spell dps.

This brings the total BM Pet white dps to (130.82 * 1.3 * 1.2 * 1.225)*0.8(mitigation)*1.15 = 201.83
The only modifiers to the MM Pet white dps are mitigation and crit, so 143.41 * 0.8 * 1.05 = 120.47

We know that for players...14ap translates to a base 1dps. For pets seems that approx 8.3ap translates to base 1dps at lvl 70. 110ap = 13.25 base dps for the pet. After adding in the % modifiers for each spec, Imp HM gives the BM pet 20.44 more White DPS and the MM pet 11.13 more dps. Trueshot aura, in the same fashion, will give the MM pet another 12.65 dps.

BM Pet White DPS: 222.87
MM Pet White DPS: 144.25

BM Pet Lightning Breath DPS
12 focus/sec, 325dmg per LB, 6.5dmg per focus
78.0 LB dps from natural focus regen
102.77 total LB DPS (modified by BW and Pet Crit Bonus)

6 focus/sec, 365dmg per LB, 7.3dmg per focus
44.90 LB dps from natural focus regen (modified by Pet Crit Bonus)

I might be a noobcake
- Check my rotations and math...I did my best but let me know if I overlooked something.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Auto->Steady Rotation ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Consortium Blaster
111 - 207 Damage Speed 2.40
(66.2 damage per second)
Avg Weapon Dmg = 158.9
Hasted weapon speed = 2.4 / 1.15 / 1.2 = 1.74

AutoShot Damage = 1.065 * (38.5*2.4 + 128.6*2.4 + 158.9) = 596.3
AutoShot DPS = 585.1/1.74 * 0.8(mitigation) = 280.6 dps

SteadyShotDamage = 1.065 * (150 + 158.9/2.4*2.8 + 0.2*1800) = 739.5
SteadyShot DPS = 739.5/1.74 * 0.8(mitigation) = 348.0 dps

GftT DPS = (2 shots / 1.74 secs) * .2 * 325 = 76.5 * 1.075 = 82.24 dps
LB DPS = 102.77 dps

BM Hunter DPS = 628.6 * 1.26 = 792.04
BM Pet DPS = 407.28
Total BM DPS = 1199.32

Wrathfire Hand-Cannon
90 - 168 Damage Speed 2.00
(64.5 damage per second)
Avg Weapon Dmg = 129
Hasted weapon speed = 2.0 / 1.15 = 1.74

AutoShot Damage = 1.07 * (38.5*2.0 + 161.86*2.0 + 129) = 566.8
AutoShot DPS = 566.8/1.74 * 0.8 (mitigation) = 260.60 dps

SteadyShotDamage = 1.07 * (150 + 129/2.0*2.8 + 0.2*2266) = 838.67
SteadyShot DPS = 838.67 / 1.74 * 0.8(mitigation) = 385.59 dps

GftT DPS = (2 shots / 1.74 secs) * 0.2 * 365 * 1.025 = 86.01 dps
LB DPS = 44.90

MM Hunter DPS = 646.19 * 1.26 = 814.20
MM Pet DPS = 275.16
Total MM DPS = 1089.36 dps

Blue Poster
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#199 - 2007/04/23 03:10:03 PM
It might be a good idea to add this guide to the Hunter Wiki, if this has not been done already that is: