Suggested Solutions for the Druid problems

#0 - Nov. 2, 2006, 4:12 p.m.
Blizzard Post
A lot of people have already posted some of what I said, but I would also like to post my opinion and maybe get a lot of the problems under one thread, since there are a lot of them.

These are general problems, and I wont go to much into math and such (basically since I cant :P)

Here’s what I’ll get into:

- Stats for druids, how they work, and more precisely how the work for the druid
- Itemization, one of the druids biggest problems, I’ll explain why
- Combat mechanics, spells and talents, a little view of what need improvement there


Ok lets stats with stats
Every class get the following stats:
Strength – increases you attack power(i.e. you dps)
Agility – increases your armor, crit chance, dodge and attack power(not as much as str does tho)
Stamina – increases your health points
Spirit- increases your health/mana regen
Intellect – increases your mana points


All of these stats is something the druid needs more or less, although due to how shapeshift works we don’t get to use all stats at once like other hybrid classes(i.e. shaman & paladin).

When we are in, say cat form, we won’t have any need of intellect or spirit because we rely on energy for our spells, same goes for bear form which uses rage. In caster form you wont have any use for agi/str when casting spells. Because of that, it means that we, in theory, have an entire different class description than anyone else. Which is something a lot of druids have tried to tell other people both in-game and in the forums.

This leads me to the itemization problem:

Take an normal hybrid item for instance, http://thottbot.com/?i=8173:
Songbird Blouse
Binds when picked up
Chest Leather
165 Armor
+13 Strength
+13 Agility
+13 Stamina
+13 intellect
+13 Spirit
Durability 100/100
Required level 53

Great for a hybrid right? But not exactly that great for a druid, because since we don’t rely on int and spi in bear/cat form it wont benefit the druids as much as a true hybrid class.

There are a lot of hybrid gear like this out there, but they are “too balanced” to make much of a difference. So what most druids do to compensate for this is to collect gear, and lots of it: feral dps gear, feral tanking gear, moonkin dmg gear and resto healing gear. Now ask yourself, should we have to carry around more stuff in our bags than a hunter with engineering, just so we can be a “hybrid”? (Personal note: With all my gears in my bag, I get maybe 16 slots free, if I’m lucky)

You see that the tier sets also have this “balanced stats” on them, but later on in the game you will see that each new tier will be more healing orientated, so in the end all the Devs want you to be is another healer, NOT a hybrid. If they wanted you to be a hybrid they would have given more offspec drops too. What most druids do in instances do is being a healbot, and only getting “leftovers” from rogue/caster loot if they drop. There are a few feral/moonkin players endgame, but the majority of the class are all healers end-game.

Solution:
There are a lot of different opinions about this, so I’ll just post my own :P

- Make more Anathema/Benediction items out there, why only priests should be allowed to get such a powerful item is beyond me. By making both weapons AND gear change into other stats IN COMBAT, it will allow druids to be more like the hybrid they strive to be, they would be able to change a role from healer to offtank by simply pressing the items, or a more druid option: It will change with shapeshift:

Chest of the Wild
Binds when picked up
Chest Leather
265 Armor
+13 Stamina
+24 intellect
+20 Spirit
Equip: Increases healing done by spells and effects by up to 100.
Equip: Restores 4 mana per 5 sec.
*Shapeshifting to Cat or Dire Bear form changes this item to Chest of the Feral*
Durability 100/100
Required level 65

Chest of the Feral
Binds when picked up
Chest Leather
265 Armor
+13 Stamina
+24 Strength
+20 Agility
Equip: Increases your critical rating with 34.
Equip: Increases your dodge rating with 30.
*Shapeshifting out of Cat or Dire Bear form changes this item to Chest of the Wild*
Durability 100/100
Required level 65

Look good? :P

- If this seems to be too complicated then I suggest to stop making hybrid items so “balanced” boost the tiers so that druids can actually use their FORMS and not get slaughtered the moment they enter bear form because they are wearing healing orientated gear
- Reintroduce “Play Dead” ability, this were similar to the hunter “Feign Death”. So If you are healing, and suddenly a tank dies, and the raid needs a offtank, you can enter cat form --) “Play Dead”, change to tanking gear, and take over the job :)



Combat mechanics, spells and talents

Shapeshift

Problem:
The worst opponent a druid has in PvP is against a warlock, essentially because he casts fear. Against other classes they get diminished returns which makes them immune towards fear eventually, but not against druids: each shapeshift resets it and each fear cast will be the first again.

Solution 1:
Make shapeshift break fear/charm effects. Before you scream IMBA, bear in mind that the dmg both pet and warlock does without fear is pretty much enough to kill you, but being able to break fear often gives you at lease a fighting chance.

Solution 2:
Make diminshed returns apply even when shapeshifting, making druids immune to fear eventually in the fight, dispite shapeshifting.

Problem:
A lot of people(myself included) think that the mana cost for shifting between forms are just to high, since shapeshifting is what defines a druid, its sad to see that you can only shift in and out of forms so little. Especially for a feral druid who, because of itemization, rely purely on feral stats and little if any intellect.

Solution:
Reduce mana cost considerably, or down to nothing at all. It would help druid to be more in role of a shapeshifter and not use only ONE form at a time. Warriors change between stances without using rage, and even paladins change between auras(what defines a paladin, aside from blessings) with NO mana cost, why druids should use so much mana on it doesn’t make any sense.

Problem:
Shapeshifting between different forms(cat to bear, vice versa) takes to much time, and you waste precious time doing so.

Solution:
Swiftshifting, allow druids to change between forms without having to go out in caster form to do so.


Feral dps
One of the most annoying problems with druids is that our dps seem to be dropping once we hit BWL, not only does rogues out-dps us, but dps-warriors and in TBC even hunter PETS have more dps than us. Constant nerfs on our combat spells makes it even harder for us to do high dmg, if you compare a feral druid with full epic you see that he in some cases are beaten by a rogue with “lesser” gear than him.

Chance on hit:
Druids are the only class(ONLY!) which don’t benefit from “Chance on hit” weapons.

Solution 1:
One of the main reason a rogue out-dps us is because of the duel wield, so why not the same for druids? What I have in mind is basically fist weapons, since there is no caster fist weapons out there(that I know of)

Picture yourself with http://thottbot.com/?set=463 set, which is godlike when proccing :P Its sad that only rogues, warriors and even hunters get this one, and feral druids are left on the sideline. There are even the sets like http://thottbot.com/?set=261 which would be great for a feral druid(if "chance on hit" worked, but they wont even get the seperate pieces because some warrior needs the rest for his dps gear...

Although most fist weapons have "chance on hit" on them, and so does a lot of 2h maces like http://thottbot.com/?i=40529

A lot of weapons are passed by druids because they either cant use offhand or they wont benefit as much from it as other classes. So let us duel wield fist weapons, and making "chance on hit" work in forms too :D
(fat chance that's gonna happen, but I can dream)

Solution 2:
If duel wielding is not an option, make cat attacks WORK as duel wield. You equip a 2h, but the cat uses both claws when attacking. This will boost your kitty dps a lot, but not to overpowered

More problems:

Consumables:
As of now, they only work with BASE stats, not the stats you get from talents(HoTw, predatory strikes). Ex: So if you have 4000 hp without talents and 4800 hp with talents, and use a consumable which adds your to your hp by 2% you get 80 hp more instead of 96 hp.

Furthermore you are not allowed to use consumables in forms, but you are allowed to use your professions while shapeshifted :S

Scaling:
Buffs like battle shout and blessing of might does not scale with gear, and the shaman buff Windfury doesn’t even apply to forms. Talents and spells dont scale with gear either.

Example: In TBC we get a lot of AP items for feral druids, like http://thottbot.com/beta?i=2086
Im kinda forgot the exact math here, but if we say str gives 2 AP and agi gives 1 AP you get 243 AP from this item. "Sweet!" you say, and since you are a feral druid, your HoTW will boost that with 20% right? No. HoTW boosts only strength so 20% of this item, you only get 11 more AP. Meaning 254 AP.If it scaled with AP you would get 48,6 more AP. Meaning 292 aprox.

Problem:
Omen of clarity is a great spell indeed, but it keeps running out in combat when doing pve and if you are a main tank for instance rebuffing is hard. In pvp it gets purged by shamans anyways(
Solution:
Make Omen of Clarity a passive spell
#1 - Nov. 2, 2006, 4:30 p.m.
Blizzard Post
An interesting read for sure, you have some interesting ideas :-)

Please do not forget to post on our suggestions forum as well when you have made a constructive post like this one :-)
#30 - Nov. 3, 2006, 9:32 a.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:

Guess it's true that they never view the suggestion forums.


And how would you know that?... Because you do not find blue posts there?

I can assure you that we read the suggestions forums, but we do not post there! And why is that? Because we do not wish to raise false expectations and we do not wish to make it look like that we favor some suggestions over others!

If we post in one thread in the suggestion forum, then it will look like we favor that idea over all the other ones posted there. In addition it will also give false expectations, as some players assume that a blue post in their thread, is the same thing as their idea will be implemented into the game. Also, players who do not get a blue post in their threads will build up a grudge and create multiple other trollish threads demanding blue attention in their threads, because their ideas are just as good as anybody else's.

How do I know that this will happen if we start posting in the suggestions forum?

I know this because we once did post fairly frequently in the suggestions forum, and this was exactly what happened. The suggestions forum became one big chaotic pool of flame threads and attention seeking demands for acknowledgment.

As a conclusion I will kindly ask you to take off your tinfoil hat, put it back in the drawers for a while and consider the fact that just because you see no blue posts in the suggestions forum, doesn't mean that we do not read those forums.
#32 - Nov. 3, 2006, 10:03 a.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:

In order to actually be able to get some constructive feedback to the development team, wouldnt it be possible to setup a special druid feedback thread where a druid will be kind enough to consolidate all the ideas into a single thread (dont think a single post will be enough) and have you guys to commit to forward it to the us and nag them to death about providing feedback to the community? The latter is quite important since at this moment it isnt even clear what the dev perspective on druids is besides the fact that we should run a way and heal all the time which is a far from enjoyable way of pvping.


Well a lot of the feedback you have posted during the last year or so has been forwarded to the developers, and we actually once did have a druid class concerns feedback thread, although that is admittedly a while ago now. What I am trying to say is that a lot of the feedback you have provided during this time is being read and evaluated by the developers, and they are comparing your feedback with their own ideas and thoughts of what the Druid class should be like. If you have not noticed by now, the Druid class (together with all the other classes) is getting an overhaul for the expansion, in fact the entire game is getting an overhaul and it is getting adjusted and re-balanced. I can assure you that many of your concerns will be addressed in the expansion, and the druid class will most surely feel less "gimped" when the Burning Crusade is released.

Sure, a new player concerns feedback thread is a grand idea, but not just yet... The developers are very busy with the expansion, and they are therefore focusing a lot on the feedback of those playing in the beta right now.
#36 - Nov. 3, 2006, 10:30 a.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:
Vaneras, what good is forwarding our suggestions if you do like the thing with giving hunters the int > AP suggestion? That one's been floating around the Druid forums for a long time, and could have been part of a solution to Druid gear problems; Hybrid gear would be more viable for ferals since the extra int instead of an item with only str/sta/agi would give just that bit more.


What is being done to the Hunter class has nothing to do with forwarding feedback on Druid concerns and suggestions, so please try not to mix these things up.

I (and of course my colleagues as well) forward your feedback because that is part of our job. We personally may or may not like your suggestions and ideas, but we forward them nonetheless, because it is the developers, and not us, who decide what feedback is useful or not.

FYI that particular suggestion you mention has indeed been forwarded, but it is unfortunately not possible for me to inform you if the developers agree with you that this is the solution for the Druid itemization issues. The developers do want those issues to be resolved, but it has to be done in a way so that Druids will not become too powerful compared to the other classes. This is one of the things being worked on for the expansion btw :-)
#45 - Nov. 3, 2006, 11:52 a.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:
Bah still have to add an additional reply to be able to see other replies >_<


Try to clear your browser cache and your cookies... that might help :-)