Regional FlagBattle: Druid vs shammy, who will win???Source
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#0 - 2006/08/31 01:24:39 PM
I am a lvl 18 druid as you see, so I want to know the answer: If a druid fights a shaman who will win???
If this question was asked before pls answer me anyway thx :)

Blue Poster
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#9 - 2006/08/31 02:52:50 PM
Q u o t e:
I am a lvl 18 druid as you see, so I want to know the answer: If a druid fights a shaman who will win???
If this question was asked before pls answer me anyway thx :)

That depends actually :-)

Before we begin there are a few things that we need to know, which should be taken into consideration before an answer can be given:

- What level are the Druid and the Shaman?
- What armor do they wear?
- What weapons do they use?
- What buffs do they have?
- What are their professions and can those professions have an influence on the outcome of the match?
- How have they spent their talent points?
- Are they experienced and skillful players?
- Are they using add-ons instead of the default UI?
- Are they dueling or is the fight a random PvP encounter?
- If the fight is a random PvP encounter, who attacks first?
- How big an influence will luck have on the fight?

Knowing these variables would give us a much better foundation for providing a proper reply to your question, but if all these variables are unknown, then only speculation and prejudice can be used as tools for answering this question, which then most surely will result in a completely useless answer as there are no valid arguments to back it up :-)

Blue Poster
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#13 - 2006/08/31 03:01:41 PM
Q u o t e:

And wow, I didn't think we'd need to know so much before deciding. :o

You don’t need to know so much at all before answering, but if you want to answer seriously then it is good to know as much about the variables of the fight as possible. :-)

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#14 - 2006/08/31 03:07:25 PM
Q u o t e:

care to make the same reply.

For a druid and a shamen same lvl with = gear?
say lvl 60.

You that brave?

Gear is important yes, but it is not everything!

Give me all the variables I listed and I will give you a proper answer based on the experiences I have personally had with the game!

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#28 - 2006/08/31 04:11:01 PM
Q u o t e:

indeed its is.

But considering how each class can counter abilities, it is plain to see a shaman comes on-top, very easily.

Now to throw in loads of nonsensical variables is just simply stretching out the whole debate.
I am surprised at the post.

Granted players can use differencial lvl if skill to win.

But look at the scenario from two equal geared and skilled players.

Who has the advantage in this encounter?

With out bringing in mods/UI player luck (not a factor in this match up, since a shamen can afford to make many mistakes).

It is plain to see who the winner will be each time.

Also care to reply on!

Rogues with 30% dodge chance to druids attacks? Care to explain how a druid can get around that problem?
A warrior in Full T2 epics!
Warlocks in Greens (why is diminshing returns reset after a shift, care to explain why?, hence locking a druid out completely or making him use one form, impossible even to low geared locks)
Paladin’s In T2+ equipment.
And shamen’s that can counter almost all our abilities:
Eathbind/Tremour totem/ES/FS/Purge.

Mages ice, so many options to slow and force to shift, +T epics great +damage what can a druid bring here?

Anyway this will be seen as some random ramblings.
So be it, don’t take my word for it get some testers with PVP with druid V classes in equal gear at lvl 60 and see the difference.

Anyway I sense ppl are taking note.
The druid class is the weakest pvp class in the game but I suppose one class has to be.
Think it would be too damaging for you guys to actually admit it though.

thanks for the post regardless i thought these forums where almost forgotten at least thats something.

Well you do take this thread a bit of topic as you bring in a lot of topics that has nothing to do with the question: "Druid vs shammy, who will win?"

But back on topic:

Saying some variables are nonsensical is wrong, as all variables have an influence in some form or another. But some variables have more influence than others, and this fact I can completely agree with.

You mention that they have equal skill and equal gear, and that luck and add-ons should not be considered!

An equally well geared Shaman versus an equally geared Druid is an interesting variable, because how do we define equally well geared exactly? You are not being precise enough, because can the PvP sets be compared to the PvE sets? (I know that this is one of the many touchy subjects that make druid players fly out of their chairs, but please try to put those concerns aside for a moment and actually try to stay objective)

The players are equally skilled you say, which is good because that makes the whole deal more interesting, but what if one skilled player uses add-ons and the other one doesn’t? (A player who is using questionable add-ons such as decursive and autobuff would most surely have an advantage over the player who doesn’t use these add-ons, right?)

Luck is a bad variable to bring into the whole thing, I can agree with you there, but you cannot discard luck completely as a variable, because it is always present. Interestingly enough you have already claimed that a Shaman can afford more mistakes than the Druid (Which I partially agree on by the way), but if the Druid have good luck and the Shaman doesn’t, then what?

Then we have the whole talent spec issue, which you do not mention at all! Are they both restoration specced? Is the Druid a feral Druid or maybe a balance Druid? (There is an enormous difference if you fight against a restoration Shaman compared to for an example a Enhancement Shaman, so talents should most surely be taken into consideration!)

You claim that it is plain to see who the winner will be each time, and I do most certainly not agree on this before I actually see some tangible arguments to back up that claim. You also say that the druid is the weakest class in PvP, but I see no undeniable proof that shows that this is true!

My point with this whole thing is that the variables of a fight between two classes are important and should never be discarded as insignificant and nonsensical. Neither should you ever choose which ones to include and which ones to leave out, because that will leave an imprecise answer. It is the variables decide who has the advantage and thus who will most likely win, and therefore they should always be taken seriously… Even though they might form a result that does not support what you might believe is the truth and thus nullifies the message you try to get across!

Personally I believe that the Druid class is the hardest class to master in this game, but a truly well played Druid can be hell to fight against. The Druid has its problems and weaknesses sure(I will not deny that), which is that the class doesn’t really excel at anything, but the Druids strength is versatility and if you can master that, then you can beat enemies who otherwise would have a clear advantage over you.

It seems like I went rambling as well and for that I am truly sorry. Let’s get back on topic and try to stay objective shall we?!

Who would win in a fight: The Shaman or the Druid?

This question cannot be properly answered without proper known variables, so what are the variables?

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#37 - 2006/08/31 05:03:37 PM
Q u o t e:

Alright i'll give it a try. I will take the duels i have fought into consideration.

- What level are the Druid and the Shaman? Both level 60 - as its there i see a problem with druids :)

- What armor do they wear? Let's give them both PVP gear rank 13, as it's suppose to be more or less equal for all classes.

- What weapons do they use? Both using End of Dreams with Tome og knowledge.

- What buffs do they have? Shaman has none except lightning shield and druid has thorns + motw (which both is normally removed within seconds of the fight)

- What are their professions and can those professions have an influence on the outcome of the match? Both has no profession and are unable to use pots during the fight.

- How have they spent their talent points? Druid is speced in whatever way you see him able to win the fight while the shaman is enhancement speced.

- Are they experienced and skillful players? Both skillful players who has been playing the game since the start and are in high-end guilds. They have both equal interrest in how the game works and both spend a lot of time studying classes.

- Are they using add-ons instead of the default UI? both use standard raiding helping UI's such as CTmod and decursive. Rest of the interface is default.

- Are they dueling or is the fight a random PvP encounter? Straight up duel.

- If the fight is a random PvP encounter, who attacks first? We'll keep it a duel.

- How big an influence will luck have on the fight? both with 25% crit chance. I dont know the odds of luck with that but i hope you do :)

That is a tough fight I think, because with this gear and all that play experience it can really go well for both of them. The only variable unknown here is the talent spec of the Druid, which leaves some uncertainty, but I am fairly sure that luck and skill is the main decisive factor in this particular fight!

An enhancement Shaman is a powerful opponent indeed and I would say that the Shaman would probably have the odds on his side, which again makes it likely that he will win. Let’s say something like 60% chance in favor for the Shaman in general, without getting too entangled with the math involved.

However I believe that a balance Druid in particular would have the greatest chance against an enhancement Shaman. If the balance druid can keep the distance especially in the beginning of the fight and thus outlast the Shaman when it comes to mana, then I believe the Druid would actually win the fight.

Blue Poster
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#40 - 2006/08/31 05:18:47 PM
Q u o t e:
ill tell ya, more skilled player will usualy win, also depends a lot on gear and luck

QFT :-)

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#43 - 2006/08/31 05:26:16 PM
Q u o t e:

Say that when fighting a skilled warlock;)

Aye... Warlocks are extremely tough to fight against in many situations, but they are not impossible to beat however. I personally have best luck against Warlocks as a Feral Druid :-)

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#45 - 2006/08/31 05:36:58 PM
Q u o t e:

A balance druid would do NOTHING to a shaman .What he can do ? Spam wrath ? or starfire ? Shamans can heal with 1,5 sec casting time heals for 1200~ and druid's only interruption is Bash ( in bear form) which is on 1 minute cooldown , which can also be parried missed and dodged, also feral charge which is kinda pointless for spell interrupting , because druid does not have burst damage to finish opponent after the 4 secound "silence" that feral charge caused.

The whole point with the Balance Druid in this fight is endurance. If you can manage to stay away from melee range at least until the Shaman is out of mana, then you have a good chance of actually winning, however it most certainly will take time.

You will not be able to win this fight by focusing on dealing damage staying in cat or bear form, because the Shaman is very strong in melee and very dangerous in close combat. The Shaman however has more problems than Druids when it comes to range. The key is distance and endurance (Patience if you will)for winning in such a fight. When the Shaman is out of mana you will have a few more options to take him down, however do it from a distance.

Blue Poster
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#49 - 2006/08/31 05:53:49 PM
Q u o t e:
Are you playing against level 60 epic geared warlocks ? guess not ;)

What makes you say that?

Nowhere am I saying that Warlocks are easy to beat, on the contrary they are not. The reasoning behind my words is that I refuse to acknowledge your claims that druids are constant losers, because that is simply not true.

Yes, the Druid class has issues and yes, there are indeed bugs that needs to be addressed. But the Druid is not as useles and "gimped" as much as you would like to have me believe in order for you to get your point accross. I know that I am telling you something that you do not like to hear, but do not blame all your trouble with Druid class on the current issues and bugs that is affecting the class, because it is very much possible to play the Druid class and even to play it well!

I personally agree wtih many of the concerns and issues that many of you have posted during the last months, but one of the things I see as a main problem, that is not easy to patch or hotfix, is that the Druid is a hard class to play well. The versatility of the class is both a blessing and a Curse!

Q u o t e:
Anyway dont change the subject

Again I am sorry. :-)

Back on topic:

Shamans and Druids. Who would win a fight?

Blue Poster
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#53 - 2006/08/31 06:05:40 PM
Q u o t e:

now why can't druids be like that for a change... of all the classes we've never had an uber period... when the game came out... there were 3 gimped classes.... Druid, Warlock and Priest ..... only druids remain ... priests can be sooo UBER.. they have main roles too..

druids don't, . druids can be healers, can be dpsers, can be tanks.. but they need to spec in one tree... and at the moment, abilities AND gear don't support them as well for those specialisastions as they do healing, so druids aren't ever taken unless there is a shortage of healers..u know what i mean. And there is no UBER druid spec, neither any gear that makes druids will awesome -- if only some nnice choice abilities for each role/tree and shifting gear.. that would sor it

I think what you say here is very true, however this does not mean that the Druid class is unplayable in its current form. These concerns you have posted here has been posted many times before now and we have forwarded those concerns to the developers for them to see. What they will do to address these issues is not yet clear, but trust me when I say that I am as much interested in this as everyone else.

But lets not take this thread off-topic, because this was not created as a thread discussing issues with the Druid class. This thread is about if a Druid or a Shaman would win a fight (Yes I know how easy this topic can lead to a grand discussions about druid problems and bugs, but try to leave those concerns behind and stay on topic.)

Druid vs Shammy, who will win?

Blue Poster
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#55 - 2006/08/31 06:11:24 PM
Q u o t e:
My friends! My goompas! ;p

Only one way to anwser this riddle ... MORTAL SHAMAN vs DRUID COMBAT (tm) !!!

Yes its a challange!

A druid vs shaman fight.

Here are the rules!

1) Those who say that druids can beat shamans (That would be you Vaneras) will get a druid at lvl 60 with T1 or T2 or PvP gear. Those who opose will meet him with EQUAL gear. T1 for T1, T2 for T2 etc.
Choice of weapons is optional BUT must be accecable (probably misspelled that) to a normal player (one that isnt merged with his Wow playing machine).

2) Spec as you like!

3) There are 5 duels! Between duels both fighters can switch specs. (5 duels to minimise the "luck" factor).

4) Specs are announced before the duel to reduce the "surprise" factor.

5) Each side can choose up to 3 fighters! Each fighter will fight 5 duels with every fighter of the oposite side (15 duels total).

At the end of MORTAL SHAMAN vs DRUID COMBAT (tm) the great dillema will be solved!

Do ye all accept this challange?

I would like to see some more cool scenarios involving duels between Shamans and Druids, so get on with it, Keep posting. Gogogogo :-D