Nerf us and you will lose us.

#0 - Aug. 20, 2008, 11:56 p.m.
Blizzard Post
Pretty simple really.

I have one goal for WOTLK. That the retribution paladin is actively recruited into raiding guilds as every other class is.

Our current problems are that we do not do enough personal damage to compensate for the amount of utility we bring to raids at a basic raiding level.

So I was glad that when the WOTLK talents came out that our dps was increased and we got some more utlitlty. Great i thought. We had art of war removed as far as dps is concered. Fair enough it was critting silly numbers.

So do we bring enough utility if they reduce our damage further? The answer unfortunately is no. Now i dont mind doing a little less dps. Atm i can compete in TBC dps- if i work my socks off and am buffed to hell, so if we do relatively a little bit less than now compared to other classes new abilities, then fine. BUT i just cannot see people craving our buffs as compensation for it.

This is not criticisms of our utilities themselves, i like all of them, its reasons why a raid leader may not be impressed by them.

a) Judgement of wisdom/light, they increase with spell power so they are boosted and this is great- but only for dps classes, healers will not see any of this. So a significant part of the class base will say it does nothing.

b) JUdgements of the wise, will give mana equivalent to 60% of judgement damage to 3 raid members. One of those will be the paladin himself. That leaves 2 people in raid. So if you are not the paladin you will actually see little of this mana battery as there are probably 20 mana users in the raid. SO this will be a hard sell because the vast majority of people base their opinions of a class on what they personally see.

c) Heart of the cursader. This is a good talent and 3% crit is not to be sniffed at. However, it is only a tier 2 talent and holys/prots can easily spec it as part of their own build. Indeed holys maybe after sheath of light. So the chances are that a non-ret pally will have this and since holys will be judging a lot more, this will be very non-ret. This will also apply to improved might as benediction aint worth it.

d) Sanctified retribution. Re-worded improved sanctity aura. Its not bad, we are used to it. Certainly not OP.People may think if i hit for 1000 i now hit for 1020..wow. I think this good over long fights, but its hard to convince.

e) Swift retribution. 3% haste for all.To me this is great especially that our damage seals of choice will be based on per hit not like SoC ..but 3% of a 2.5sec rogue sword? are they going to say gimme, gimme? probably not.


Now, i think we have great utility. All thats listed above is good for long fights (small buffs long period of time = much goodness). BUT, and here is our problem, are they going to be desired by others to a point we start to see in trade "Guild X is currently looking for a retribution paladin to help us in our raid progress"? The answer is no, not really.

What will save us at the moment, is dps. If we are known to do great dps and also bring a series of small buffs. People will want us. BUT now it looks like we will lose dps.

So please give us an ability that people say, ret pallys can raid because they bring 'X' if you are going to reduce our dps.
#98 - Aug. 22, 2008, 10:54 a.m.
Blizzard Post
This thread has derailed into a nasty little flamefest, hence the lock.

Please keep a more civil tone from now on.