Regional FlagPvP gearing is bad and not fun (HELP)Source
Target Source
#1 - 2017/12/10 07:02:00 PM
Hello friends, I am writing this post due to recent concerns regarding PvP gear.

Apologize in advance for the massive use of the terms "PvP gear" and "PvE gear".

The only advantage PvP gear has in PvP or any other aspect of the game is its item level. PvE set bonuses and trinkets are still far superior in both high end raiding and high end mythic dungeons. This makes sense, high end raiding and dungeons should have beneficial gear for their type of game play.

The issue I'm having is now PvE gear is both easier to obtain and higher item level then its PvP counterpart. Gearing has essentially become irrelevant in PvP and has really taken a back seat this expansion. As a result, its feel like participation is down more than ever.

I'll give you a bit of an anecdote: I've been playing the game since vanilla and haven't really dipped my feet in much PvE content since early WOTLK. This expansion with +10/+15 chests rewards from Mythic+, I decided it was worth my time to complete this task weekly. I didn't feel like I was wasting my time and ended up enjoying the content as a way to progress my character. As a result I've come to really enjoy this type of content and now participate in Mythic raiding as well. If there wasn't that initial incentive to try the content and feel good about getting gear, I never would of done it in the first place.

With that in mind I'd like to now compare ways to gear in PvP content vs PvE content. Strictly in terms of item level here's a list from worst to best.

845 From normal dungeons
870 Random battlegrounds
885 Mythic +0
900 Crafting with blood of sargeras
900 Chest from winning a brawl once every two weeks.
910 Reliquished
915 LFR Antorus
925 LFR Argus
930 Normal Antorus
930 Rare drop from being 2400 rated in arena and winning a match.
940 Guaranteed from every mythic +15
940 Weekly PvP cap for being 2000 rated in arena.
940 Normal Argus
945 Heroic Antorus
950 Weekly PvP cap for being 2400 rated in arena.
955 Heroic Argus
960 Mythic Antorus & Weekly chest from m+ 15
970 Mythic Argus

These aren't the only ways of gearing but most.

For a new or casual player it's easy to see why gearing in PvE is not only much more rewarding but also guaranteed.

Do you know how many times I've heard my PvP buddies say "Lets go get our weekly +15 done" compared to my PvE friends saying "Lets go get 2400 rating so we can get our weekly cap done!". Even if you completely disregard the difficulty of achieving that rating in PvP, there's a monumental time difference in the two tasks, they're not even comparable. And yet, the weekly chest is still higher item level.

A reasonable item level to compete at higher end PvP and PvE is around 940.
Anyone aiming for this goal wouldn't waste their time PvP.


940 Guaranteed from every mythic +15 (GUARANTEED FOR COMPLETING, NOT EVEN IN TIME)
940 Weekly PvP cap for being 2000 rated in arena. (ONCE A WEEK)
940 Normal Argus (ONCE A WEEK)
945 Heroic Antorus (10 BOSSES A WEEK)
950 Weekly PvP cap for being 2400 rated in arena. (ONCE A WEEK)
955 Heroic Argus (ONCE A WEEK)
960 Mythic Antorus (10 BOSSES A WEEK) & Weekly chest from m+ 15 (ONCE A WEEK)
970 Mythic Argus (ONCE A WEEK)

Here's my WW monks armory:

I've played 219 games of arena this season at roughly 2500 MMR & 2400 CR. So far this season I've received 0 upgrades. The only pieces of PvP gear that remain for me are 2 pieces of elite warforged, something most players would never have access to. What's really disheartening is this problem is even worse for casual, low rated and mid tier PvPers.

People should feel incentivized to play all aspects of WoW. Currently PvP gear has taken a massive back seat and as a result participation and interest feels lower than ever.

Am I alone in feeling this way?

Community Manager
Target Source
#409 - 2018/01/09 09:48:00 PM
Thanks guys for all the feedback here as I've been tracking this thread for quite a while. With Battle for Azeroth we aren't ready to share information on what changes may be coming past what has been shared at BlizzCon.

PVP is something that has been actively discussed going forward into the new expansion, no idea on if any changes are going to be made but keep in mind we still have a whole testing cycle to go through so please keep the discussion up.

Community Manager
Target Source
#502 - 2018/01/10 05:49:00 PM
Upped the cap on this one since you guys hit it. :)

Community Manager
Target Source
#830 - 2018/05/09 11:04:00 PM
Hey guys! We've recently posted some changes currently coming to BfA regarding a lot of topics discussed in this thread. Here's a a copy of Phalanx's post and here's the link here to where it was discussed on the BfA forums.
05/08/2018 08:31 PMPosted by Phalanx
In BfA we are doing some meaningful re-structuring of the PvP itemization system, as well as the ranking system. We're still massaging the system, but we'd like to share some details which may help alleviate some of your concerns. Keep in mind some of this stuff could still change. No pony promises.

New ranking system
We're updating the ranking system to better mirror the other games at Blizzard. WoW via arena is actually one of the first competitive games at Blizzard to have a rating system, so it's fair to say it's time for an update.

To that end we want to bucket players in rankings similar to StarCraft or Overwatch using labels such as Gold, Platinum etc. (We're still going to have our own titles (Challenger, Rival, Duelist etc.)) We feel these rankings have grown to common verbage in the competitive PvP community so we're happy to bring them to WoW. Keep in mind that you'll still be able to see your rating at end of match and within the UI. And we're also looking to add your actual rank in the UI as well (as in, you're rank #10 in the region).

New iLevel reward scheme
Similar as in Legion, we're going to reward you with better gear based upon your competitive standing. However, in Legion we rewarded you incrementally in a linear fashion. So as you gained more rating, your iLevel gradually increased. We found this didn't reflect the distribution of players very fairly in terms of appropriate reward for effort in the system. (Translation: The iLevel of rewards was generally too low) In result we're changing the distribution instead to be something of a bell curve, to match the new ranking system.

What this means is that players in Challenger/Gold (1600-1800 around) will have a chance at ~Normal raid quality loot, Rival/Platinum (starting around 1800) with Heroic Raid quality loot, and so on.

Epic Appearances and other rewards
Different rewards will be tied to different rankings. In Legion you got the entire Epic appearance when you hit 2000 rating, in BfA this will be gradually rewarded to you at different ranks. And you will instantly get the look after you achieve that rank, rather than a end of season calculation.

We totally get the concerns with potentially too broad of brackets. And we definitely agree the competitive spirit often burns brightest at the highest ratings, so it's something we'll be mindful of. Season Gladiator mounts (and likely glad titles) will still be a % distribution at end of season like in the past, and we could see new rewards for the upper brackets as we shift some of the others (Epic appearances) downwards.

Weekly Conquest
As discussed in the past, we're introducing a conquest system based upon past designs. You will earn conquest from doing PvP activities (mostly rated, but some also from War Mode) that will fill a bar for a reward each week. This is intended to be attractive to the average player.

One of our biggest goals with the new system is to better align the effort and reward in contrast to all of the other parts of the game, especially at the lower rankings who perhaps in Legion (or in the past) didn't see it as worth their time. I think we can all agree that more players doing competitive PvP is a worthwhile goal.

We hope to have these systems live in beta soon, and hope to hear your feedback!

As always we're eager to hear your guys feedback on this!