Regional FlagThat's it. Hire Nostalrius, ASAP.Source
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Falathrin
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#1 - 2017/11/15 01:50:00 AM
Blizzard,

You're getting mixed feedback from anti-legacy trolls who've always despised this project, players who claim they played Vanilla but they never did, and actual veterans.

Your recent posts got the Legacy Community worried as hell on Youtube, Discord and Reddit.

11/14/2017 03:45 PMPosted by Ythisens
I personally think its fair to have a discussion about classes/specs in Classic, considering class balancing as a philosophy didn't exist back then as it does now. The idea of a "hybrid tax" was obviously not very good in the grand scheme of overarching class design and it made some specs arguably not viable/unplayable. I'm not suggesting we make huge changes or even small changes at all for that matter, but that it is a worthwhile conversation to have.


"We wanna hear back from the community: everything from new character looks to old character looks – what would people prefer? Please tell us." -
https://www.gameplanet.co.nz/features/g5a0a5435b78dc/The-Long-War-Blizzard-on-Battle-for-Azeroth-and-WoW-Classic/

*** Please hire Nostalrius. *** I think it's safe to say at this point they know better than you do on what the legacy community wants in WoW Classic. You're not supposed to please everyone. I've said it before, I'll say it again:

WHAT YOU SHOULD BE DEBATING:
- Start at 1.0 and go through patch cycles? Or 1.12 and release content progressively like Nostalrius did?
- Only fix bugs that caused server/game crashes? Or fix all bugs?
ETC.

WHAT YOU SHOULD NOT BE DEBATING:
- Old race models SHOULD BE IN WOW CLASSIC
- Old combat animations (such as old school Fireball animation) SHOULD BE IN WOW CLASSIC
- Old combat sounds SHOULD BE IN WOW CLASSIC
- Old Vanilla login screen SHOULD BE IN WOW CLASSIC
- Old graphics SHOULD BE IN WOW CLASSIC
- QoLs (((Small OR Big))) SHOULD NOT BE IN WOW CLASSIC
- New race models SHOULD NOT BE IN WOW CLASSIC
- Updated graphics SHOULD NOT BE IN WOW CLASSIC
- NameChanges/FactionChanges SHOULD NOT BE IN WOW CLASSIC
- Cash Shop SHOULD NOT BE IN WOW CLASSIC
- "Class Balance" SHOULD NOT BE ATTEMPTED IN WOW CLASSIC

Don't give the Legacy Community ANY reason to go back to private servers.

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Community Manager
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#26 - 2017/11/15 02:17:00 AM
The posts on Reddit are my favorite, as they pretty much contradict everything said here, aside from a couple people being all doom and gloom. I agree with them in the fact that they noted people are over reacting.

To be clear - we are simply encouraging conversation and discussion. We are not developers, we do not make any final decisions on Live or on Classic.

I think it's more showing that you would try to shut down conversations with your big, bolded letters instead of engaging in a constructive way. If you want to try to lay out a plan to show the community why those things are things the Classic community shouldn't want, then do that. You are not the sole voice in this conversation - there are "purists" on both sides of the argument, there are people who want 1.0, those who want 1.12, those who want 1.7 so the debuff cap is 16, those who want progression. There's thousands of different opinions, and trying to shut those down in one swoop doesn't necessarily bode well for you.

Like J. Allen Brack has said, our goal is to create an experience that is as close to that original World of Warcraft experience as possible. I personally do not see that as us chasing things down and reinventing the wheel, and definitely not anything that would fundamentally change how Vanilla was, but there are conversations that do need to happen, and if your only goal is to come here and try to stop them instead of participating and adding valuable input to one side or the other, then you're most likely not welcome here.

This forum isn't a place to yell and scream that "BLIZZARD DOESNT KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING - HIRE NOSTALRIUS", when all we are trying to do is be transparent and make sure we're listening from the start.

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Community Manager
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#41 - 2017/11/15 02:27:00 AM
11/14/2017 06:22 PMPosted by Mormont
11/14/2017 06:17 PMPosted by Ornyx
The posts on Reddit are my favorite, as they pretty much contradict everything said here, aside from a couple people being all doom and gloom. I agree with them in the fact that they noted people are over reacting.

To be clear - we are simply encouraging conversation and discussion. We are not developers, we do not make any final decisions on Live or on Classic.

I think it's more showing that you would try to shut down conversations with your big, bolded letters instead of engaging in a constructive way. If you want to try to lay out a plan to show the community why those things are things the Classic community shouldn't want, then do that. You are not the sole voice in this conversation - there are "purists" on both sides of the argument, there are people who want 1.0, those who want 1.12, those who want 1.7 so the debuff cap is 16, those who want progression. There's thousands of different opinions, and trying to shut those down in one swoop doesn't necessarily bode well for you.

Like J. Allen Brack has said, our goal is to create an experience that is as close to that original World of Warcraft experience as possible. I personally do not see that as us chasing things down and reinventing the wheel, and definitely not anything that would fundamentally change how Vanilla was, but there are conversations that do need to happen, and if your only goal is to come here and try to stop them instead of participating and adding valuable input to one side or the other, then you're most likely not welcome here.

This forum isn't a place to yell and scream that "BLIZZARD DOESNT KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING - HIRE NOSTALRIUS", when all we are trying to do is be transparent and make sure we're listening from the start.


What you're forgetting is that those in the vanilla server community have been fighting for a Classic server for YEARS! We have been begging for this to become a reality and I'm appreciative of that being so. However, changes such as class balance DO fundamentally alter the vanilla experience you allude to in your response. I don't believe being passionate about our stance and belief is wrong, considering for how long we've been begging Blizzard to create a Classic server.
For sure - be passionate! But this forum is for discussion, telling people to stop talking about x, y, and z because you have a passionate opinion is not okay.

Feel free to share that passion of wanting no changes to class balance in constructive ways, like showing the community why that would be a bad change through actually discussing it, etc.

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Community Manager
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#58 - 2017/11/15 02:31:00 AM
11/14/2017 06:28 PMPosted by Twelver
11/14/2017 06:17 PMPosted by Ornyx
The posts on Reddit are my favorite, as they pretty much contradict everything said here, aside from a couple people being all doom and gloom. I agree with them in the fact that they noted people are over reacting.

To be clear - we are simply encouraging conversation and discussion. We are not developers, we do not make any final decisions on Live or on Classic.

I think it's more showing that you would try to shut down conversations with your big, bolded letters instead of engaging in a constructive way. If you want to try to lay out a plan to show the community why those things are things the Classic community shouldn't want, then do that. You are not the sole voice in this conversation - there are "purists" on both sides of the argument, there are people who want 1.0, those who want 1.12, those who want 1.7 so the debuff cap is 16, those who want progression. There's thousands of different opinions, and trying to shut those down in one swoop doesn't necessarily bode well for you.

Like J. Allen Brack has said, our goal is to create an experience that is as close to that original World of Warcraft experience as possible. I personally do not see that as us chasing things down and reinventing the wheel, and definitely not anything that would fundamentally change how Vanilla was, but there are conversations that do need to happen, and if your only goal is to come here and try to stop them instead of participating and adding valuable input to one side or the other, then you're most likely not welcome here.

This forum isn't a place to yell and scream that "BLIZZARD DOESNT KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING - HIRE NOSTALRIUS", when all we are trying to do is be transparent and make sure we're listening from the start.

You posted a comment suggesting that class balance was on the table. The feedback was immediate and extremely negative.

Instead of blaming people for posting their opinion, try listening.
I don't think that was ever suggested, and if you think it was, then you're misinterpreting our posts or maybe we aren't being clear enough. Ythisens said that it was his personal opinion that, for him, it wouldn't be a bad thing if we decided to go that route.

I noted that those are important discussions to have so we can see where the community stands on the topic. I think it's obvious, at least from my point of view, that a majority of the community currently stands against things like changes to class balancing and such.

That, however, does not change the fact that attempting to quell discussion around it is inherently against the point of this forum entirely.

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Community Manager
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#69 - 2017/11/15 02:37:00 AM
<span class="truncated">...</span>I don't think that was ever suggested, and if you think it was, then you're misinterpreting our posts or maybe we aren't being clear enough. Ythisens said that it was his personal opinion that, for him, it wouldn't be a bad thing if we decided to go that route.

I noted that those are important discussions to have so we can see where the community stands on the topic. I think it's obvious, at least from my point of view, that a majority of the community currently stands against things like changes to class balancing and such.

That, however, does not change the fact that attempting to quell discussion around it is inherently against the point of this forum entirely.


The trouble with that is that's the first blue post we've gotten since classic announcement. It had been silence up until then
It's only been a week or so, and we've been a bit busy around here cleaning up from BlizzCon and such!

Expect more soon™. :)

11/14/2017 06:37 PMPosted by Koushi
<span class="truncated">...</span>I don't think that was ever suggested, and if you think it was, then you're misinterpreting our posts or maybe we aren't being clear enough. Ythisens said that it was his personal opinion that, for him, it wouldn't be a bad thing if we decided to go that route.

I noted that those are important discussions to have so we can see where the community stands on the topic. I think it's obvious, at least from my point of view, that a majority of the community currently stands against things like changes to class balancing and such.

That, however, does not change the fact that attempting to quell discussion around it is inherently against the point of this forum entirely.


You know well enough when a blue says something, even with a personal opinion disclaimer, it still lends credence, directs discussion, and is interpreted (whether or not you think this is done wrongly) as Blizz endorsement. Discussion was already happening without the blue.

What's silly is that backtracking and an attempt at playing word games and semantics. The fact of the matter is it has always been on the table, blue or not since nothing is set in stone yet. Even if blue dev says no changes, blue dev can change his mind 2 years down the road.

You can stop playing victim blue.
I agree! I think that even personal opinions from CMs can direct discussion 100%, but that shouldn't ever stop us from engaging in general. Whether or not it was the best place at the best time is really aside from the matter.

As you said, things aren't necessarily set in stone, but as I've tried to make clear, we are listening, and I think we have a good grasp on the current mind set and direction of the community, as has been made apparently by threads like this one, among others.

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Community Manager
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#91 - 2017/11/15 02:47:00 AM
11/14/2017 06:43 PMPosted by Itsblock
People need to relax and talk to people in a rational, adult manner.

Insulting will get you no where and will end up with a locked thread.
Just as a warning - I think we've said our parts here, and I've noted numerous time that our goal here is to listen to the feedback from a community who has worked very hard to get to where we are now.

I'd prefer to not have to direct any heavy moderation around these parts, so let's keep it all civil and constructive.

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Community Manager
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#100 - 2017/11/15 02:51:00 AM
Seems like I had my hopes too high for this one.

For future reference, deriding your fellow posters, or any member of the Community team who is here to support you, is really no way to get what you want. If you would like to participate in constructive conversations about what Classic is or should be, then please do so.

Let's try to be good to each other.

Closing.