Regional FlagNO to "Class Balancing"Source
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Frostchi
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#1 - 2017/11/14 04:14:00 PM
So apparently all the Druids Shamans and the occasional Paladin think that WoW Vanilla needs Class Balancing because their classes weren't as good. When people say they want Class Balancing, what they're really trying to say is they want to be just like a warrior tank -- or do as much DPS as a Mage, etc.

For classes that have multiple roles, this would not only break the balance of the game, but it actually GOES AGAINST THE ORIGINAL DESIGN BY BLIZZARD. (See quoted section below)

Hybrid classes are "jacks of all trades" in some cases, and it typically means they are masters of none.

http://web.archive.org/web/20061215232521/http://www.worldofwarcraft.com:80/info/classes/druid/

weakness: animal forms are not as powerful as their counterpart classes

http://web.archive.org/web/20061216080407/http://www.worldofwarcraft.com:80/info/classes/paladin/

weaknesses: heavily dependent on mana for offense and defense abilities, limited abilities with which to draw enemy attacks

http://web.archive.org/web/20061216053653/http://www.worldofwarcraft.com:80/info/classes/shaman/

weaknesses: high dependence on mana pool for offense and survivability


^^^^^^
The "Authentic" Experience that we are going to get, is going to be just like this.

Say NO to Changes , and say NO to "Class Balancing"!

We don't want WOW:Classic to turn into a homogenized crap heap like Live.

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Community Manager
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#127 - 2017/11/14 11:45:00 PM
I personally think its fair to have a discussion about classes/specs in Classic, considering class balancing as a philosophy didn't exist back then as it does now. The idea of a "hybrid tax" was obviously not very good in the grand scheme of overarching class design and it made some specs arguably not viable/unplayable. I'm not suggesting we make huge changes or even small changes at all for that matter, but that it is a worthwhile conversation to have.

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Community Manager
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#140 - 2017/11/14 11:53:00 PM
11/14/2017 03:48 PMPosted by Jentso
11/14/2017 03:45 PMPosted by Ythisens
I personally think its fair to have a discussion about classes/specs in Classic, considering class balancing as a philosophy didn't exist back then as it does now. The idea of a "hybrid tax" was obviously not very good in the grand scheme of overarching class design and it made some specs arguably not viable/unplayable. I'm not suggesting we make huge changes or even small changes at all for that matter, but that it is a worthwhile conversation to have.


I have to ask since you're a Blizzard employee. Does your opinion speak at all for the design team working on this?
It's more of a personal opinion. As you've read numerous times, the team for Classic is just now coming together, so I wouldn't say there's much of an opinion internally one way or the other.

This is more so a "we", the Community team, remember that class balance was one of the more contentious discussions during the early days - and it could be useful feedback to continue those discussion so we can have a concrete place to look at how players feel Classic balance should be.

Should class balance be left as it was, or should it be tweaked within a certain margin, or should it be constantly tuned and worked on? I'm not so certain that any specific one is the default, correct choice.

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Community Manager
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#153 - 2017/11/14 11:59:00 PM
11/14/2017 03:48 PMPosted by Zones
He is most likely here to spark discussion for the developers.


Shhhh don't give it away! Nobody has noticed I'm here yet.

11/14/2017 03:51 PMPosted by Azothan
This comment right here is not something I was hoping to read as a returning player excited about the prospect of a vanilla server option. I guess it was too good to be true.


I wouldn't read too much into it. I'm just saying its a worthwhile conversation to have in the grand design of "How do we pull this thing off?". Its honestly one of a thousand questions and it isn't as simple as just pick a patch and roll with it. I feel that its more likely that nothing class design wise will change and I'd be fine with that too. I just want the conversation to happen personally.

11/14/2017 03:56 PMPosted by Janesong
Keep breathing and discuss.


Where do we go to actually panic though?

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Community Manager
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#155 - 2017/11/15 12:00:00 AM
11/14/2017 03:56 PMPosted by Lagspike
So Ornyx and Ythisens, are you going to be regular posters here with us? Im sure all of us would love some blue company in this madness of a forum :)
As regular as we can be!

It's going to be interesting bouncing between Classic and Live discussions and trying to not mix anything up. :P

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Community Manager
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#162 - 2017/11/15 12:03:00 AM
<span class="truncated">...</span>It's more of a personal opinion. As you've read numerous times, the team for Classic is just now coming together, so I wouldn't say there's much of an opinion internally one way or the other.

This is more so a "we", the Community team, remember that class balance was one of the more contentious discussions during the early days - and it could be useful feedback to continue those discussion so we can have a concrete place to look at how players feel Classic balance should be.

Should class balance be left as it was, or should it be tweaked within a certain margin, or should it be constantly tuned and worked on? I'm not so certain that any specific one is the default, correct choice.


Thank you for clarifying.

In my opinion this leaves the entire design aspect of this server now open ended. Just me, but I think it'd be far more productive to first determine what the design goal of this server really is. Is it supposed to be as much of a 1:1 emulation of the old experience as possible? If so, then these discussions are just setting up some false expectations.
That's kind of the beauty of it - I don't think anything has necessarily been decided.

These decisions will really be made by the kind of discussions we see here, so... if folks want a true 1:1 Vanilla experience, then we want to see the discussion of that. If people think there should be changes here or there, then we'll want to see that too.

The community will truly be what shapes the direction of Classic as we move forward, together.

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Community Manager
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#194 - 2017/11/15 12:17:00 AM
The community will truely be what shapes the direction of Classic as we move forward, together.


Ornyx may even be understating here, because so much is still up in the air. Even the discussions we've had as a Community team every day since we knew it was coming have been around the numerous QoL changes, class changes, content changes, and each of us has a different opinion on what Classic "should be" because to each of us Vanilla WoW was obviously different.

11/14/2017 04:11 PMPosted by Goriun
Just please tell us you'll read as much as you can and listen to as many opinions as you can. We're having problems at others shouting down any opinions they don't agree with and trying to get them silenced/to leave.

I'm so pumped to see a blue posting here, just to confirm someone is listening on occasion.


We're going to be reading a lot, that's for sure. The Warcraft community is obviously very vocal so we won't have to worry about not having things to read. I mean the fact that this project exists is because of you guys. We've heard you and we're still listening.

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Community Manager
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#201 - 2017/11/15 12:19:00 AM
...That's kind of the beauty of it - I don't think anything has necessarily been decided.

These decisions will really be made by the kind of discussions we see here, so... if folks want a true 1:1 Vanilla experience, then we want to see the discussion of that. If people think there should be changes here or there, then we'll want to see that too.

The community will truly be what shapes the direction of Classic as we move forward, together.


Just please tell us you'll read as much as you can and listen to as many opinions as you can. We're having problems at others shouting down any opinions they don't agree with and trying to get them silenced/to leave.

I'm so pumped to see a blue posting here, just to confirm someone is listening on occasion.
Just to add to what Ythisens said above:

We've been reading and talking about Classic within the Community team almost every day. Before BlizzCon we were all so nervous and, really, amazed that this project was actually going to be announced at the show. But we do need to make sure things are kept in perspective - we don't want to jump onto too much of a hype/posting train, as its still all coming together and there's not much that is concrete.

I can guarantee you that the Classic team will be listening, and we will be forwarding as much along as we can. We know this project means a lot to a lot of players, and it means a lot to us too.

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Community Manager
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#219 - 2017/11/15 12:26:00 AM
11/14/2017 04:23 PMPosted by Elemeno
11/14/2017 04:19 PMPosted by Ornyx
I can guarantee you that the Classic team will be listening

Any chance of a dedicated Classic MVP / Blue forum poster?
Maybe one that will hop into our raids every once and a while? :)
We're working on a bit of a bigger revamp of the MVP program for WoW in the background, as well as a few other projects that should be a good solution to this.

I wouldn't expect myself, Ythisens, or any other CM to move over to an entirely Classic role at this point, however.

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Community Manager
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#233 - 2017/11/15 12:31:00 AM
11/14/2017 04:27 PMPosted by Vandal
Paladins are always whining about ret, don't give them a thing.


I feel personally victimized by this statement.

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Community Manager
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#707 - 2017/11/15 03:11:00 AM
A few things have been taken out of context here, and I just wanted to course correct and say that nothing for Classic is set in stone.

We want to work with the Community on making sure we can do World of Warcraft: Classic the right way. We want to listen to the opinions of the players who have worked to get to where we are now.

We do not want players on our forums attacking each other left and right. People are free to have their opinions, on both sides of these arguments, and we will be following them closely.

We will not, however, play into the hands of people directing their followers to make attacks against our community or otherwise conflagrate the community we have on these forums.

I have read the majority of the discussion in this thread, and I think it's easy to see that a majority of posters here are against changes to class balance in any form in Classic. I'll make sure that feedback is passed on when the time comes for it. I think this thread has served its purpose and the feedback has been clear.

Closing.

A word of warning: we're seeing a huge increasing in outgoing forum moderation and punishments for harassment and toxicity from people who are participating in this forum without an active subscription. We would very much like to keep this option open, as I personally realize that Classic players may not necessarily play in Legion. However, if it becomes the best move for our community, and to maintain a constructive environment, I am not opposed to flipping the switch and returning this forum to subscribers only. Please be mindful of how you are treating each other, and please make sure your posts are constructive and provide good context for the thread you may be posting in. Thanks!