@Outlaw Rogues - Blue Tracker

#1 - Sept. 29, 2016, 9:31 a.m.

EDIT: Thank you Ornyx for at least acknowledging this thread, but just like blizzard's obsession with twitter, it would have been nice for you to post here instead. There's a high chance that almost none of us would have seen that post about that guy's transmog.

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20749406938?page=2#post-34

Ah! You've figured out my dastardly plan... Warlocks would be the only class to ever be happy if it weren't for you meddling kids!

Let's be honest: no one is *ever* completely happy with the state of their class - but just because I'm not sitting in a thread about Outlaw rogues posting "thansk for feedback" over and over doesn't mean I didn't read it and it most certainly doesn't mean I'm not having conversations with it to the good folks here at the office.

This has been said a lot recently. If we don't post, we probably don't have anything of value to share or add to the convesation. I have nothing to say to Outlaw Rogues at the moment that will make them happy. I will be thrilled to have a discussion with them when I get more information or a bit of insight and philosophy.

In case this was missed - it's nearly 7pm PST, and most of us are either home or winding down our days and having a bit of fu... Ah, I forgot. Fun is frowned upon around here. I'm going home.

I just don't know what to do anymore. I did a normal clear tonight and it just felt awful. Rerolling 6+ times for trash, rerolling sometimes more for bosses. My start up was so slow on almost every pull, I haven't seen a 6roll in a week.

I love outlaw thematically and aesthetically, they have some of my favorite artifact skins and I generally still look forward to getting them. But I've invested so, so much time into this character. I haven't had a legendary drop and I compete well against my guildies who do and it just seems like a huge slap in the face that everyone got these huge nerfs reverted but blizzard still felt that outlaw was too powerful.

If blizzard is worried about what we MIGHT do with a 6roll and good luck on mechanics and uptime, why not reel in the potency of the RTB buffs and make 1 buff the same chance as 6 buffs with rogues mostly floating with 2 or 3 buffs?

Why not make SnD a more attractive option instead of having to take an ability that we traditionally learned at like level 6 for the last 10 years just to curb the RNG of our class? Why do I have to sacrifice lovely MfD for a 10 year old finisher? Why isn't there a talent that smooths out RtB a bit to make us more reliable if we don't want to play slots with our DPS?

Why did you nerf RT when it's a massive portion of our DPS, then you nerfed our regen which is already sluggish to begin with? It's not fun to have rerolled 4+ times, have no energy and also have to wait 3-4 seconds for energy to trickle back in EVEN when you've gone out of your way to sac a bit of versatility for haste.

I just don't understand. All the top specs have going for them, aside from fire are all fairly promised, non RNG damage. But we had to be nerfed because of what we might do, without accounting for what we usually do, and that's do average DPS with occasional moments of pure glory.

I love outlaw outside of RTB, and I don't want to funnel AP into another weapon for a spec I know I won't enjoy as much.

With the nerfs to RT and our regen, the spec has felt more sluggish than ever and the payoff is not nearly as high. This doesn't feel fun or feel good and other classes are looking more and more attractive. The percentage of players that play rogues is like 5-6% because there are three other leather wearers that do it better and more reliably. Why break something that wasn't even as potent as the top 5 specs last patch?

I just don't know what to do anymore.

TBD

#1 - Sept. 30, 2016, 7:36 p.m.

Please see source post at http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20749387005?page=65 for detail.

Ornyx

#291 - Sept. 30, 2016, 7:33 p.m.

Extending the cap on this thread.

I'm aware of the feedback and concerns laid out here and on the Rogue forums, and will be forwarding some of this along to the development team as I can.

I would like to lay out expectations however. This post does not mean that you are guaranteed to get changes, and, as should be obvious, definitely does not mean that you are guaranteed changes next week.

I appreciate everyone taking time to write out their thoughts and feedback here regardless.

Ornyx

#294 - Sept. 30, 2016, 7:39 p.m.

09/30/2016 12:33 PMPosted by Ornyx
Extending the cap on this thread.

I'm aware of the feedback and concerns laid out here and on the Rogue forums, and will be forwarding some of this along to the development team as I can.

I would like to lay out expectations however. This post does not mean that you are guaranteed to get changes, and, as should be obvious, definitely does not mean that you are guaranteed changes next week.

I appreciate everyone taking time to write out their thoughts and feedback here regardless.

Quoting myself to fix the blue tracker on this thread. :^)

Ornyx

#1308 - Oct. 18, 2016, 1:34 a.m.

I've sent off another round of questions for developers on the topic of Outlaw and our plans/goals moving into 7.1.

You guys will be the first to know when I hear anything, of course. Hoping to have something to share tomorrow.

Ornyx

#1312 - Oct. 18, 2016, 1:43 a.m.

10/17/2016 06:37 PMPosted by Stabriel
10/17/2016 06:34 PMPosted by Ornyx
I've sent off another round of questions for developers on the topic of Outlaw and our plans/goals moving into 7.1.

You guys will be the first to know when I hear anything, of course. Hoping to have something to share tomorrow.
I don't understand why it took you just a day to get answers on the Paladin changes which will now be reverted, but after weeks and weeks you have nothing for us?

What do the devs do when you give them our feedback, do they dump it in the trash and laugh or what?

There are some cases where we just don't have anything to share.

Not every spec is necessarily being worked on when I approach the developers with a question. Sometimes it takes some time for the class team to figure out the path forward for a particular spec, then, when I am able to parse that information, I come to share it here.

The Paladin answer was simple, and we found out today that the change was being reverted for now, with a possible redesign down the line. That's a simple message to that community.

Game design isn't as circular as you may think it is, and feedback doubly so.

Ornyx

#1316 - Oct. 18, 2016, 1:49 a.m.

10/17/2016 06:46 PMPosted by Stabriel
<span class="truncated">...</span>
There are some cases where we just don't have anything to share.

Not every spec is necessarily being worked on when I approach the developers with a question. Sometimes it takes some time for the class team to figure out the path forward for a particular spec, then, when I am able to parse that information, I come to share it here.

The Paladin answer was simple, and we found out today that the change was being reverted for now, with a possible redesign down the line. That's a simple message to that community.

Game design isn't as circular as you may think it is, and feedback doubly so.
just thought that us classes and specs who are at the bottom (And Outlaw is absolute very bottom) would be higher on the priority list. But it's been a month or so now and nothing for us, but Paladins (Who are well above average) get their concerns addressed immediately.

So how is this stuff prioritized? Because I believe in the popular theory, which is Blizzard put the classes they play first and foremost. And I have a pretty damn good feeling that none of the dev team play Outlaw.

No specifics to share, but with how many developers work on WoW, I am 100% sure every class and spec is represented a multitude of times. Saying anything less would seem silly.

Ornyx

#1453 - Oct. 18, 2016, 10:01 p.m.

FYI - I didn't forget about this, and I've sent questions to the development team; waiting for those answers to come in now.

I'll post what I get as soon as I see it!

Ornyx

#1502 - Oct. 19, 2016, 1:16 a.m.

Cap increased. Haven't heard anything - looking more like tomorrow on this one.

Ornyx

#1823 - Oct. 20, 2016, 11:24 p.m.

Apologies for being away yesterday, was trying to recovery from a bit of death. ;P

Cross-post from my reply to Demon Hunters, but relevant here:

Hey all,

I know everyone is asking "when" but it can be hard to put timing to these things. As soon as I hear something, I will share it.

We want to make sure we have something of substance to share so we can have a more open discussion about where we are heading with Havoc moving forward - making sure we have these conversations first internally among the development team is something that needs to happen first, and does take some time.

I appreciate your patience in the mean time, and know that I'm reading along here.

Ornyx

#1855 - Oct. 21, 2016, 12:43 a.m.

Hey everyone,

Thanks again for your patience here as it does take some time to make sure we go over all the feedback we receive - we've been having a few conversations based on the feedback in this thread and throughout the community, and I wanted to share our thoughts on Roll the Bones, as well as the state of Outlaw overall.

Roll the Bones is a spec-defining ability for Outlaw Rogues, and there’s a lot of depth to the gameplay of reacting to the various buffs that the Bones can provide, as they alter the flow and pace of combat. We’re happy with how it’s played out, and there are very few class mechanics that can rival the excitement of getting that elusive 6-buff at just the right time.

That said, we recognize that that playstyle might not sit well for everyone, which is why we created Slice and Dice as an alternative to opt-out of the Roll the Bones playstyle. Marked for Death and Death From Above take a little more effort to use effectively, and need to give enough of a benefit to reward that effort, but we’re going to take another look at Slice and Dice to make sure it’s living up to expectations. If it isn’t, we’ll look into making some improvements.

Separately from Roll the Bones, we do feel that Outlaw’s DPS has ended up a little lower than we’d like it to be, and are looking into some options to bring it up a bit. We don’t have an ETA just yet on when that might happen, but it’s on our to-do list.