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Regional FlagShaman Hate LIES!!!!! And worthless forums!!Source
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Chfsitingbul
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#0 - 2008/02/11 02:33:57 PM
DON'T BELEIVE THE LIES!!!!

The bug forums list Call of Thunder (rank 5) as being bugged because it gives 6% crit instead of 5%.
2.4 PTR Patch notes show it is about to be nerfed
"Call of Thunder: (Rank 5) now gives 5% critical strike chance."

I've been an applications engineer for years and I can tell you there are at least 3 basic steps.

1. Describe exactly what the program is suppose to do.
2. Hire code monkey to write program
3. Test program

I can assure you that programmers are capable of accurately counting to 10 without taking off their shoes. Call of Thunder Rank 5 was originally designed to give 6% crit. It was not a bug. Nobody is so dumb they could have overlooked that for 2 years, through all the design and testing phases. Now blizzard has decided to nerf elemental shaman, by claiming this is a bug. ANYONE WHO SAYS IT WAS A BUG LIES!!! It is an intentional nerf, at least have the decency to call it what it is.

I realize blizzard has the right to change their game as they see fit. But you don't see them taking away rogue's stealth, mage's sheep, warlock fear, or druid shapeshift. They don't change those abilities because that is why people picked those classes. Well when I decided to play an elemental shaman, I picked the class because of the high base crit %. I decided to become an elemental shaman because Call of Thunder Rank 5 was 6% crit, not 5%. I don't have any cool unique abilities like other classes, crit is what i do. Now they are taking that away and it makes me sad. Everything Is bases on my Crit rating, my mana efficiency, LIghtning Capacitor, and Sextant of Unstable Currents all depend on me critting. Don't you think resilience has nerfed my crit enough? This is a slap in the face. I hate patch 2.4. I can't even look forward to the new content because of the stench of this nerf.

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Blue Poster
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#3 - 2008/02/15 05:40:20 PM
It is a slight nerf, but it was done based on a need for consistency of values. The developers felt that it was a bit strange to have the progression jump from 4 to 6 rather than a 1%, 2%, 3%, 4%, 5%.

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Blue Poster
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#46 - 2008/02/15 05:56:47 PM
Q u o t e:


So then calling it a "bug fix" in the patch notes was wrong. It is now a "consistency" fix.

Edit: By the way Neth grats on having the courage to continue to post in the shaman or really any forum today. Good luck with your day. Just think only 7 more hours till yoiu can drink a bunch of beer.


It's not listed as a 'bug fix' in the patch notes. It is listed as a change. While the 6% has been there for awhile, things change and ideas change with it. Keep in mind, changes are being planned not just for 2.4.0 but for the future as well.

I know people are upset, have questions, concerns, and more. I'm doing what I can to give you what I can as we go along. Personal attacks, etc, are not going to be tolerated.

I'm telling you straight why there was a change. You can accept it or you can be upset about it as you wish. The most productive thing is to continue to test changes as you can and relay feedback.

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Blue Poster
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#86 - 2008/02/15 06:19:05 PM
Q u o t e:


The reason why we are calling this a "bug fix" is because it appeared on the bug report forum shortly after 2.3. We brought attention to the fact that it was not a bug, but no on got a reply from Blizzard as to why it was suddenly being called one- Hortus was the one who actually started this bit of "misinformation" but since this is the first time we have been able to engage a Blue about it, we were still operating off that premise.

I agree- name calling should not be tolerated.

So there was a change. A negative one. Is there a postive one on the horizon or are we going to have to wait until the expansion before "all is revealed"- because last time we did that, we got nothing usable in Arenas in a game where arenas are heavily favored in developement cycles. We would like to help you with this process so we do not run into the same problem we have now- Positive changes to GAME MECHANICS but no real changes to SHAMAN MECHANICS to balance out the game- leaving us, yet again, less viable than before.


We're planning to try to be a bit more proactive in getting you information ahead of time where we can as we make changes. Again, I'm not promising anything other than we are going to try do these things.

Ideas change, sometimes communication isn't perfect. When we state things on the forums, it's as we know them at the time. I'm stating things as I know them to be. I could very well be corrected by someone at a later point in time.

You've asked for dialogue. You've asked to be communicated with. It's what I'm doing now. I will never claim to be perfect. I will never claim to be all-knowing. I can only tell you things as I know them to be and do my best to update that.

As much as I know some feel there is no trust here, I am still going to ask that people trust that we will communicate more to you as we go to the best of our ability.

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Blue Poster
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#102 - 2008/02/15 06:28:38 PM
Q u o t e:


This does not feel like communication Neth. Your pressence here feels like crowd control. It feels like you are here to calm us down, especially as these nerfs keep comming. We get CC'd repededly ingame and now on the forums too. So I hope you can understand why we are so pissed off at the moment.


Honestly, Grixor, different people have different expectations from communication and what they want out of it. I do understand where you're coming from and understand your frustrations. For some people, just knowing we're here is enough. For others, they don't want us speaking unless we have the information THEY want most. For others, nothing short of a full document on the complete and total evolution of their subject of interest from start to finish is enough. At no point will we satisfy everyone, but we are going to continue to do our jobs to the best of our ability as we believe it to be the most beneficial to the community and the health of the game and company.

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Blue Poster
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#124 - 2008/02/15 06:38:20 PM
Q u o t e:


Neth, I am not angry with you! You sound like you have the weight of the world on your shoulders right now- You sound a bit defensive, but I will say this to you because you said it once to me right after you STARTED this job-

Inflection is very hard to read over the internet.

I believe I never requested perfection. You are doing above average here, by anyones standards to even BE HERE this long. So Cheer up! Now...

What sort of things can we do to assure some positive changes for Shaman? I am pretty sure that you have gotten the message that VERY VERY FEW shaman are happy with the changes- as they appear to weaken the class (already viewed as weak, and with annecdotal evidence to back up the claims). Confidence in developement cycles has already eroded, as the longer this trend persists, the weaker we appear to become. We are glad you are here talking to us- it is the first step to getting us back on track. We want to be competetive and needed.

It's that simple.

If the new direction removes the ability for us to be either of those, it will become very ugly for the Shaman class. We would like to help move the class in a new direction- and we can provide plenty of good feedback... provided we know what that new direction IS. Please pass this on to the developement team-

We want to help them make this game better for all of us.

(also please pass on that not all shaman are total morons and some even THINK about the ideas they throw out.)

Please let us Help you, help us, so we can all benefit.


Darshnar, I'm not defensive. Honestly. I understand some people will feel a desire to lash out me personally. I'm not worried about that. Text and inflection within it can be tricky. ;) I've been doing community work for a long while, and I was 'just' a gamer like anyone else (and a very vocal one at that) before.

I understand the passion and conviction that players have for something they love. This is not about "Us vs. Them". The developers are working toward what they feel is the best possible situation for everyone. They don't feel animosity toward the community. They genuinely care about it, but are in fact human and yet still need to make some hard decisions they know won't always be the most well received.

I truly respect those that continue to post constructively to voice their feelings and concerns.

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Blue Poster
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#138 - 2008/02/15 06:44:24 PM
Q u o t e:


So, you are saying constant shaman nerfs is to work on a best possible situation for everyone ?


No. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that changes to any class be they deemed nerfs or buffs are aimed toward larger goals in the development of the game.

Yes, we want people to be happy with the classes they are playing. Yes, the developers are aware that many Shaman are unhappy at current. Yes, they are working toward the betterment of the class (and all classes) even when they make changes that are unpopular.

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Blue Poster
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#225 - 2008/02/15 07:31:50 PM
Q u o t e:
I think this is the part where Neth disappears and never comes back.
It'd be about right.



Or it could be the part where I have other work I need to do, of which includes further follow-up on other things. ;)

I'm still reading as I'm able, but I'm not going to be able to respond to every post or idea.

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Blue Poster
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#264 - 2008/02/15 07:55:07 PM
Q u o t e:
Also Neth.
Why is it that other classes are discouraged with 3 day bans to start petition threads yet Druids freely have blues posting in their Petition threads encouraging said growth of them? Will I be banned if I start a petition on the shaman fourms?


The post has been edited, the poster warned of further such posting. These are always discouraged. We wanted to respond, however, in a thread that was the most appropriate for the message we wanted to give for that concern. Just like I still responded to this thread despite the claim of lies being instigated on our part. Their change was not in response to their post, but a planned change already in the works.

We will continue to try to promote more constructive posting through various means as we feel necessary.

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Blue Poster
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#385 - 2008/02/15 10:22:39 PM
I have a little feedback on the type of feedback we need from people. (This goes for any class giving feedback.)

We're looking for very clear and specific feedback that lets us know, what spec you are referring too, what element of the game you are referring to (ie 2v2 Arena), and what you're finding to be the issue in reference to them.

Please take note of the sticky post at the top of the forum. That sort of format is meant to boil things down in a clear manner.

Posting that Elemental "sucks" isn't helpful, nor is saying that Enhancement is lacking without indicating the aspect of the game you're having a hard time with.

Posting that you feel Enhancement needs help in 2v2 and why gives us a much better picture of what people are finding issue with.

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Blue Poster
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#411 - 2008/02/15 10:34:13 PM
Q u o t e:


So is all the work that myself and others did on that big thread "Shaman Concerns for 2.4" not what you're looking for? Should I re-write it to fit the format you guys are looking for?


No. Yours is good. Some others had been asking for more information on what we needed, so I'm relaying that and reiterating the importance of being specific when giving feedback.

Not to sound like a tired and broken record, but we are working on more information to give to everyone on class changes.

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Blue Poster
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#434 - 2008/02/15 10:51:32 PM
Q u o t e:
Neth > Ex

That being said, neth why is it we aren't able to gain insight on what the devs have in store for shaman in the long run?


Give it a little time.

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Blue Poster
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#438 - 2008/02/15 10:53:06 PM
Q u o t e:


fixed


Not quite but good try! ;)