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Regional FlagFair Question About Recent ChangeSource
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Cownose
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#0 - 2007/01/24 04:55:15 PM
Good morning,

I'm not here to QQ about recent hunter adjustments. What I am here to ask is the following:

Is the current state of Arcane Shot exactly what was intended by the Dev's or are there some issues with it since the patch?

The reason I ask, is that there seems to be more differences to the shot than what was listed in the patch notes. My reason for asking is that if this is the "intended version" I think I might re'spec and play around with some different builds.

If it is not the "final version" or is somehow bugged, then I won't respec yet and will wait to see the "correct" version of the changes before making any moves spec wise.

I hope blue can address this, I believe this to be a reasonable question & request.


*Edited the title- Nethaera

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Blue Poster
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#3 - 2007/01/24 05:05:36 PM
Q u o t e:
Good morning,

I'm not here to QQ about recent hunter adjustments. What I am here to ask is the following:

Is the current state of Arcane Shot exactly what was intended by the Dev's or are there some issues with it since the patch?

The reason I ask, is that there seems to be more differences to the shot than what was listed in the patch notes. My reason for asking is that if this is the "intended version" I think I might re'spec and play around with some different builds.

If it is not the "final version" or is somehow bugged, then I won't respec yet and will wait to see the "correct" version of the changes before making any moves spec wise.

I hope blue can address this, I believe this to be a reasonable question & request.


*Edited the title- Nethaera


I'd love to answer this for you but I'm not sure if I can in a way you are looking for. Like anything, there is always a possibilty that it could be changed/adjusted again because results show it to be slightly off from what was desired. Is that the case in regard to Arcane Shot? I couldn't tell you. At this point, I'm going to believe that since it was tested and implemented that it is what was intended. Now, should people see some very strange numbers and results that just don't make sense, we'd want them to report them so that we can take a look at it again.

The changes that Hunters saw were simply due to the fact that there were abilities that were just too strong for what was intended. I've seen many in the community echo the same feeling and others upset about the changes. It's understandable and wasn't unexpected.

I think what you need to do is decide what fits your playstyle best and what you want to get out of your time as a hunter. If you feel a respec is going to suit you better, then I'd say to do it. If you feel you'd rather wait to see what else happens, that's your choice as well. I can't make a guarantee that this is the end of any changes. What I can say is that if something is not working correctly and is reported, we will do our best to address it. If you are playing with your current build and feel it lacks something, change it up and see if you can find that sweet spot again that makes you happy.

*Edit- Just because I edit a title doesn't mean that the response will be posted immediately after. Sometimes it takes a little time to write one.

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Blue Poster
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#19 - 2007/01/24 05:29:44 PM
Q u o t e:


neth, I think I know where the hunter community may be going with this one.
In short, the "fix" to arcane shot has not sufficiently balanced us in pvp as we are still able to destroy casters and rogues, but at the very same time, the change (combined with the change to multishot) has reduced our pve dps by roughly 100 when using identical gear and rotations. Hunters are concerned that we are back on the slippery slope to being "balanced" in pvp at the expense of being horribly underpowered in pve as we were prior to the 2.0 patch.
Many of us feel that the devs implemented a quick fix that has done far mroe harm to the class than good and we worry that we will soon be back where we started. Part of this worry is the fact that the arcan shot nerf will actually mathematically increase in severity as we gear up. A non-linear declination in scaling has many of us concerned that we are going to end up once again as the least scaled class in the game exactly as we were before.
Many of us also worry about the fact that the changes were on the ptrs barely a week, and during a period of time when everyone was too busy on the live realm leveling and trying out new content to bother to test on the ptr. We worry that the "fix" had too little or no actual testing, and that despite its severity and lack of appriopriate development time, will remain as is.

In short, we worry that we are being slapped with quick fixes when we need more delibreate and well thought out fine tuning. We worry that the devs wont hear a word of this feedback. We worry that we are on the long road to pve uselesness and tranq bot syndrome once again.


I understand what you are saying and understand your worry. One of the most difficult parts of maintaining balance in a game that supports PvE and PvP is making it so that abilities don't diminish the challenge of one or the other in a way that negates the point of doing them. The developers do read and your concerns are forwarded. I realize there is no way to convince everyone of that absolute truth but there it is. These changes are not done without a lot of internal discussion, thought and testing either. Being that we are in fact human though and not machines calculating infinite situational probabilities, sometimes changes need to be made to correct things.

That said though, we are continuing to keep a close eye on all of the classes and how they are performing both in PvE and in PvP. It's no different for Hunters as well.

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Blue Poster
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#66 - 2007/01/24 07:07:14 PM
I just wanted to post a quick follow-up that I moved this thread to the Hunter forum for a couple of reasons:

First, I didn't want people from other classes derailing it with their own threads or issues.

Second, I didn't want it to get buried under the usual general forum posts.

I am still reading and will be pulling feedback from people to forward on. I can't guarantee any specific response or a visit by a developer but I can say that your feedback is being gathered and forwarded to them.

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Blue Poster
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#74 - 2007/01/24 07:15:43 PM
Q u o t e:


I rarely get a chance to quote a Blue response in these forums so I want to take this opportunity to ask this: Since 2.0 changes were tested and implented (supposedly), weren't they too to be intended? Or was it more likely that changes were made w/o having a great understanding of the big picture? We like to have faith in Blizzard that they know what they're doing but when you give, and then take away....draw your own conclusions.


I believe I also said "At that point in time". (At least I think I did in the reply somewhere. If not it was intended to be there.) Things change based on results and live reaction/implementation. Each change is done with care but sometimes things change the results and thus change is implemented based on those results.

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Blue Poster
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#88 - 2007/01/24 07:31:08 PM
Q u o t e:


Neth,
With the changes to Arcane shot, were there any "undocumented" changes? Specifically, Was the Crit % lowered on Arcane shot? I've not seen anywhere near the number of crits with Arcane shot as I was before the patch.


I'm not aware of any undocumented changes being implemented. We try to be as thorough as possible on notes and have the most current ones on the website so that if something slipped in, we can make sure to add it there so people are aware.

Yes, everyone plays various classes like any normal person. There are also focused tests that are done internally.

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Blue Poster
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#204 - 2007/01/24 10:41:34 PM
Q u o t e:
Something tells me this new blue doesn't know how to deal with a post of that magnitude and will just cop out and not post on this board ever again.


I'm neither new nor do I not know how to deal with a post of this 'magnitude'. I certainly hope you don't gamble. So far you're not doing so well.

Wait, I mean... What post? There's a post in this thread people like and want forwarded? Wherever can I find it? :)

I'll make sure it's forwarded on.

*Edit- BTW, please do not repost on the general forums. It will only draw moderator attention and could result in a suspension for crossposting. I have removed the other post but did not suspend. If a developer IS going to respond, most likely they will come here.

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Blue Poster
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#209 - 2007/01/24 10:47:56 PM
Q u o t e:


Are you the newest of the CM's? Yes. As to how well are you handling this post, eh your doing about as well as Tseric has ever done on the mage forums, though thats not saying much, I hate Tseric.


Thank you for sharing your insight. Please refrain from sharing your personal opinion about employees in the future. If you wish to address game issues please feel free to post on the forums. If you wish to address employee job performance, have complaints or even compliments, you can do so by emailing -

[email protected]

For now, I am going to suspend you for a brief cool off.

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Blue Poster
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#232 - 2007/01/25 12:05:12 AM
Q u o t e:
a. the original Hunter team left Blizzard
b. the CM's coudnt handle the cries of hunters to get there class Fixed(not overpowered fixed)
c. the current devs have no idea what to do with the hunter class let alone balance it.
d. you are fresh meat on this hunter forum. For others, your answers only Fuel the fire that is already burning at the hated relationship between the Hunters and the Devs.
e. You are our first CM in 1 year..


A. This is a partial truth. Some members of the team left a long while back but the core team is still here.
b. This again isn't completely true. We do not have control over getting things 'fixed'. We can only relay information and see what is decided based on that information.
c. Please give them more credit than this. They work very hard, are talented and very passionate people. They do know what they want and have been doing a great job. While people may not agree with every decision, they do the best they can. Sometimes things need changed based on new information but that does not mean that they don't know what they want to come of it. We've gotten this far and fully intend to go much farther.
d. I realize many people don't step foot outside these forums and live here. I am definitely not fresh meat but can understand the perception. Put aside the hate. This is a game we all love and wish to continue to make better.
e. Actually we have been here on and off more recently than 1 year. I was here myself when I could be prior to New Years as were others. We may not have always had as much to say at the time. Now that things are live, we may come across things that we can get involved with as far as conversation goes. There are many forums, many questions and concerns and many other activities that we have beyond just posting on the forums so we may not get to everyone as often as we like but we try. It's just easy for a 'blue' post to get buried as daily posts cover them over.

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Blue Poster
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#379 - 2007/01/25 06:52:05 PM
Guys, I appreciate that you feel strongly about the post you all are quoting, but please don't quote it anymore. If you have something to add to it, great, but reposting it doesn't do anything more for the value of the thread. :)

I can't do a break down for you as a response on that thread but did forward it and if/when I get some feedback I can respond more directly. I don't want to muddle anything or confuse anyone about what constitutes MY word vs company/developer word since there is no way for me to seperate the two for you without someone saying "AHA! Blizzard said!"

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Blue Poster
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#392 - 2007/01/25 08:13:21 PM
Q u o t e:


All our hopes and dreams lie with you. You are the last son of a dying breed. Go forth and bring us back a ray of hope.


So no pressure right? :)