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Regional FlagWTB Double TrappingSource
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Aeccestane
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#0 - 2007/11/14 10:18:18 PM
I don't understand how there was such a problem with double trapping that it had to be stealth nerfed?

All it ever did was help groups better contain large pulls in 5 mans, and I have never heard anyone complain about it.

So, what gives?

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Blue Poster
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#1 - 2007/11/14 10:24:46 PM
Q u o t e:
I don't understand how there was such a problem with double trapping that it had to be stealth nerfed?

All it ever did was help groups better contain large pulls in 5 mans, and I have never heard anyone complain about it.

So, what gives?


I was just about to get to this one. This was another bug fix that unintentionally didn't get into the patch notes. It's getting added in now in order to clear up the confusion. Here is how the note actually reads:


• Fixed a bug in which Hunters were able to use Readiness in conjunction with Freezing Trap on two different targets.


Being able to double-trap was not intended to happen so the bug has been corrected. As always though, constructive feedback on changes are always welcome. What should happen is if you trap another target, the first trap should release much like what happens when a Priest Shackles Undead or a Mage Polymorphs a target.


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Blue Poster
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#14 - 2007/11/14 10:31:09 PM
Q u o t e:
I would understand this change if Traps weren't

1. Harder to use than other CC methods and

2. On a 30 second CD

My feedback is this: I don't like this change and believe it was totally unwarrented.


Noted. I'll be keeping an eye on these threads and will expand their capacity just so that I can pull feedback from them. Please keep it constructive.

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Blue Poster
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#61 - 2007/11/14 10:52:42 PM
Thanks for the continued feedback. It's appreciated. Let's please avoid further swearing. It's understandable that some people are upset, but there is no point in breaking the code of conduct to express it. ;/

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Blue Poster
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#120 - 2007/11/14 11:30:47 PM
Q u o t e:


A piece of direct feed back:

Patch notes exists entirely and specifically to list the changes in a piece of software. Since this bug fix was intentional and planned there is no excuse for not listing it in the patch notes. To attempt to hide the information from the user base is disrespectful.

Time to own up, apologize for hiding the changes (and any other stealth "bug fixes" in any aspect of the game), and start creating proper patch notes.


While I understand that there will always be people that honestly and truly believe that we purposefully hide these sorts of changes, we don't. Being that we are human and thus fallible, the most we can do is act as quickly as possible to verify the correct information and get it out to those that are affected by it.

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Blue Poster
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#151 - 2007/11/14 11:42:29 PM
Q u o t e:


Well here is the thing... This patch has been in development for a while now. Anybody who played a hunter in heroics would know that his is a major change to how our class functions. So there was plenty of time to get this into patch notes and let us know. Which leaves only three possible options...

1. This change was intended to be a stealth nerf, and the Devs hoped that by not mentioning it, they could slide it under the radar and into the game so they could later say 'oh yeah, well now that its in, you'll have to wait till next patch for adjustments' and promptly file 13 our complaints.

2. This change was thought of at the last possible second (read yesterday) and quickly thrown in. This would be very disheartening to know that major class changes receive so very little testing before they go live.

3. No one on the development team actually plays a hunter at 70 and does any heroics. So of course, when they decided to make this change they had no idea how detrimental it would be to the class. Therefore, since they didn't know how it would actually work, they didn't think it was major enough to be listed.

To be honest, all three of those scare me.. and make me worry for the future of this game.


You forgot 4. This was a bug fix that was added in during the last part of the patch pushes and was missed during documentation.

These sorts of things are never intentional or done maliciously. However, during large patches with lots of moving parts, even with plenty of documentation, missing things can happen. We do our best to cover it all, and will keep working to get better at it. You have my word on that for whatever that may be worth to you.

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Blue Poster
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#173 - 2007/11/14 11:51:30 PM
Q u o t e:


Um.. pretty sure that fell under number 2. Last patch push... not tested on the test realms very long... let me edit the (read yesterday) to say... extremely recently.

I do appreciate you talking to us and accepting our feedback. I'm sorry if I sound um.. terse. I'm just frustrated thats all. Will you be able to compile this thread and show it to the devs? this is one bug fix a lot of us would rather have been left as a bug.

thanks


No worries at all. I work on these patch notes. It's one of the many things I do, so it actually does bother me if I miss any contrary to popular belief. I certainly do not choose to purposefully frustrate the community in any way. All I can say is that I will continue to work toward making sure we miss as few as possible and get better with them.

I also absolutely will compile the concerns and bring them up in discussion. I couldn't answer for you the time frame for fixing bugs as to how long it may have been in the queue to be fixed or not. What I do know is that it was listed as a bug and addressed as such. I also can't promise any kind of immediate feedback for you. Should we get some though, someone will come by to share it with you.

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Blue Poster
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#182 - 2007/11/14 11:55:06 PM
Q u o t e:
Sigh neth you keep responding to Morale issues with the patch notes.

Instead of responding to people who are trying to get our CC balanced like every other class.


Djinn, it's not something I can address for you. :) The most I can do is what I'm doing now. I can keep reading and take the concerns to the Development Team for their consideration. I understand what you're trying to say about your CC and the concerns you have with it. I can't say if I do or do not agree. I can only say that I understand the concerns.

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Blue Poster
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#198 - 2007/11/15 12:02:41 AM
Q u o t e:



I don't need a answer, the majority of us just wanna know that you read what I had to say and you are going to let the Development team know, and then come back to us with information on it.


Just like the Pet abilities thread, you comment in it but you don't report back with what you have received from the Development team.



I can only bring back information if I have it to give. It doesn't mean that there aren't things in the works (or at least known concerns) or information being shared among the team and actively discussed.

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Blue Poster
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#221 - 2007/11/15 12:24:32 AM
Q u o t e:



This is why so many CMs get thrown under the bus. They report dutifully to the devs and the devs drop the ball everytime. So the CMs get blamed and flamed for it. Be very careful what info you pass on from the devs Neth. Kaydiem found that out the hard way when the devs told her "there is no cooldown bug".


It's only assumed the devs have "dropped the ball". They do follow the trends of thought as well as testing of the various class abilities, uses and more. However, keeping tabs on it all, does not mean they can act quickly or that they will do so in a way that people expect. We do have to be careful about making promises. We try to be accurate in what we say. Things do and will change and as someone that has been in Community Management for awhile now, I'm aware that sometimes posting new information is a calculated risk not only on my own part but on the part of the company. If it doesn't come to pass, people begin placing blame when perhaps there are other reasons that can or can not be stated to correspond. Being that we are in fact people and do care about our community, we don't tend to like to disappoint people who are passionate about the game we work on. :)

I've never felt thrown under the bus, but I do understand how people can have the perception of it. I enjoy both the community I take part in and the company I work for.

As to sharing exactly what we take to the developers, it's not something we generally do. Could that change at some point in time? Perhaps. For now though, we do have a method for our madness.

I do appreciate the continued discussion here and will make sure to revisit the conversations when I can.

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Blue Poster
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#541 - 2007/11/15 06:46:18 PM
Q u o t e:
Nethaera,

If you're still reading this thread (and I really hope you are) could you post to make sure we know you read it all the way to the end? It's a long thread, but there is a LOT of very good material in it.


Still reading.

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Blue Poster
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#998 - 2007/11/19 03:43:52 PM
Just so you are aware, your concerns were passed along and more information will be coming your way before too much longer. It may not be today though. (As I said in the other thread.)