If -30% is done at calcualtion, why do we...

Bonus honor is now shown in your daily estimated honor totals.

Please be sure to use the Blizz icon with the green arrow to skip to the next blue post to ensure you're reading all of the information provided before replying. Thank you.

Q u o t e:
You mentioned on another thread that the 30% reduction is done with nightly calculations.

Did I? As far as I know, and as far as I have seen with my own honor the estimates take into account the 30% reduction for bonus and honor kills. The diminishing returns which are calculated each night would be the cause for your estimate almost always being higher than the honor you receive.

[edit] Clarification posted further in here: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=58886106&sid=1&pageNo=6#109

Q u o t e:
Did I?

No, you didn't. I did. This is that thing we were talking about, when people confuse us all the time.

/shrug

Q u o t e:
The way it is currently working is this.

ANY honor you see in your screen, be it the combat log, the honor tab, or the battle ground results window has all ready had the 30% reduction in gains calculated into it. The ONLY thing you CAN'T see while you're playing is reduction in honor from diminishing returns. This means that it is possible for some people to get exactly what their estimate honor is on the next day. And other people will get MUCH less.

I think that nicely sums it up, so I won't retype it.

Q u o t e:
I think it's cute people confuse you!

Schlemeel, schlemazel, hasenfeffer incorporated!

<Drysc and Tseric skip down the road arm-in-arm>

Q u o t e:


Hey cutey,

Why is the old honor systems rank used to determine my value in pvp?

Hey.... you,

I've seen this posted before but with nothing more than an assumption as its basis. Is there any proof floating around of this being the case? Obviously the pop-up ranks are still showing, but as the ranking system has been removed I'm not sure if its even possible for it to count towards anything in the new honor system.

Q u o t e:


How come we went from about 240 bonus honor for AB battleground down to about 100 now? Seems like more than 30%.

In addition AV Bonus honor is significantly lower now, more than 30%.

It seems like you're gauging your gains/losses with a general feeling of what you had before, and a general feeling of what you're getting now. If you track your honor scientifically and find any errors we would be more than happy to take that information towards helping our own investigations, otherwise we can only explain some of the perceptions of "there's less now" in so many ways.

Q u o t e:


Its when you enter a BG Drysc. My rank when 2.0 hit was like 3.... So now when Im the leader of a group in BGs... and ANYONE who had a higher rank than 3 when 2.0 hit joins the match.. they take leadership away from me automaticaly.

Its kind of a lingering pointless echo of the old system...... it need to get teh boot and also it needs a 50 dkp minus for being stupid.

Ah! That's kind of funny, well you could argue that those players previous ranks probably still earns them that to some degree, right? You could also argue that it's a dead system and shouldn't influence current game mechanics. I can't say which argument wins, although I can say it seems rather inconsequential to me. I'll bring it up though.

Q u o t e:


/grunt.

Personally, I think that it should default to whoever's first in, then that person can assign it whereever. It's for certain that not all rank 14s are remarkably good at leading.

Can you appropriately weigh that the "first in" is able to lead more often than a rank 14? Does being lucky, hitting the button quickly, or having a fast computer have any bearing on the ability to "lead" a group? Now on the opposite end, does having a pronounced history of dedicated play to the battlegrounds have more or less bearing on that same ability?

I'm playing a little devil's advocate here obviously, and I can't say it's still intended for the grouping to function with rank being a factor, but I also can't say the argument for it to change holds much water, IMO.

Q u o t e:
I have screen shots that I took from last week of wins, and in AB I was getting 289 Honor, and after the "nerf" I am only getting 120. That is the calculation at the end of the game

Posting the screenshots can't hurt.

Were the days you were playing on that battleground's holiday weekend? Did you kill the same number of people each time with the same number of unique kills so that diminishing returns would not factor in?

Q u o t e:
In AV I was getting around 500 - 600 honor for wins with all towers capped and Galv killed. Now I am only getting max 325

500 - 30% = 350. With diminishing returns I can definitely seeing you being at least in the ballpark you should be. It's hard to say though without taking into account how many kills there were for each game.

Q u o t e:
If you would like the screen shots, I can provide them, but that seems rediculous that I would have to prove that you reduced the honor 50%, I think we all know that the reduction was more then 30%, I just don't see why it is not admitted. It's not like we can do anything about it.

If you want to post them then you're able, I can't say they'll prove much as you're only looking at estimated totals and not tracking actual honor gains. I would argue that very few actually see a reduction of more than 30%, and quite a few players have provided in depth proof that there isn't, yet there seems to be no such in depth proof that there is. We've done our own tests and we're unable to reproduce anything other than the intended 30% reduction.

What I believe is that some display bugs coupled with incorrect perceptions of what should be happening is causing confusion for a small group of players.

Q u o t e:
The other day on my lvl 60 priest I was doing BG's for a while before I went to bed. I had 634 HK and it estimated that my honor was around 1200. (I'm guestimating here, the screenshots are at home.) The next day when I logged in I still had 634 HK but the honor that I received for the day was like 937. So I was like wtf?

The totals carrying over into the next day is one of the known display issues. If you're logged in at the time of the calculation sometimes your kill totals and estimated honor totals are not wiped. This is probably the largest contributing factor to a perception of lost honor as players don't notice their estimates haven't been removed from the previous day and see and believe they should be rewarded for that honor, when in actuality it has already been awarded.

Q u o t e:
When I actually sat down and thought about it for a while it made sense because healers get screwed on honor per kill. People that do damage to the target receive 7-8 honor per kill while another person that healed for that fight only receives 3-4 honor.

I'm not sure where you heard this but this is not true. Any players in the group, in-range of the kill, get an equal portion of the honor from that kill, regardless of their involvement, class, spec, etc.

Q u o t e:
This is what we'd like addressed. This has been dodged but not addressed. This is not some radical display in bonus honor, this is an inaccuracy of what appears on our screen in three seperate occasions with the possibility of human lying on the third (the twenty that appeared before patch, the fourteen that appears post patch, and the ten that appears as the amount of Honor Points earned for a lieutenant kill (this last one being the one that is subject to human lying)).

If any CM can respond, it would be most appreciated.

It hasn't been dodged but answered in more broad terms. I'm not sure what I can respond to other than the double 30% for that kill, the 20 being reduced to 14 is indeed a fact from the 30% reduction.

The second claimed reduction of that 14 to 10 is, at best guess, a very successful troll. No one has been able to recreate this scenario and provide proof that this has occurred to any one at any time. That includes our own testing, as well as independent player testing.

Q u o t e:
Do anyone have this problem?

Before 1:30 am. honor update
estimated 49 killed

After 1:30 am honor updated
estimated 26 killed

what happen to other 23 kills?

That's right around when the calculations happen. Either 26 of those kills were considered "post calculation" and will be part on your next day's honor (and you already received the honor from the other 23 kills), or they're still displayed due to a known bug that doesn't wipe honor/kills if you're logged in during the calculations.

For purposes of reassurance I’ve double checked and the 30% reduction is already factored in for all of the honor that you see gained, be it from honorable kills or bonus honor and therefore is reflected in your estimated honor for each day.

The statement on the reduction being made during the nightly calculation was incorrect, and we apologize for any confusion.

Q u o t e:
If you typed it ONCE, And STICKIED it everyone would Shut Up

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=53875399&sid=1

Updated earlier today :)

Q u o t e:


uhhh, what? Are you claiming that the bonus honor is only 14 every 330 resources? The game says it is 20, in this thread you are claiming the 30% is done before you tell us, not after. People are SO confused because you don't have your facts straight. I know for a fact ab used to be 27 honor every 330 resources, and it now says 20. Now I see you claiming its really 14, where in fact you get 14 for every objective you do in AV (lieutenants, bunkers, ect.).

I'm going to spend a bit of time to try and explain this in a way that it makes sense (and is not 100% wrong like you keep posting).

BONUS HONOR:
AB:
WAS: 27 honor every 330 resources + 27 for a win = 189 (297 on a 'holiday' AB weekend)
NOW: 20 honor every 330 resources + 20 for a win = 140 (220 on a 'holiday' AB weekend)
mathematical reduction = around 30%

WSG:
WAS: not sure (didn't really pay attention before the nerf) but around 55
NOW: 40 per cap + 20 for a win = 140 (don't know how bonus works in wsg)

AV:
WAS: 20 honor every objective + random amounts (the random amounts were in chunks of 20)
NOW: 14 honor every objective + random amounts (chunks of 14)
mathematical reduction = around 30%

CONCLUSION: There was an obvious 30% reduction for bonus honor, that is SHOWN as you get it, not AFTER.

HONOR FROM KILLS:
This is a much harder beast to figure out. While I haven't done any tests to see exactly how much the kill honor was reduced it was reduced, and that reduction is SHOWN as you get it just like the bonus honor.
Using an add on to keep track of diminishing returns has shown that according to the estimated honor that is being given that the amount shown is correct. There is NO SECRET 30% MORE being taken off. The only reason your estimated honor from the day is different after they add it up during the night is because of diminishing returns, nothing else. The add on I've been using hasn't been off by more then 50-100 points a day even when getting 8k+ honor in a day. Blizzard is not doing anything differently then they did before with honor from kills (its just a lot less now).

THE END

*everything in this post is 100% right at the time of posting THX

Eh, well crap I went to edit my post to reflect that I'll double check my numbers for AB tomorrow, and hit the delete button instead. >:(

[edit] I decided to jump in a game and indeed it is 20 honor per resource tick, sorry about that. I'm confusing myself now. :(

Q u o t e:
Just one question, with diminishing returns and with or without the 30% reduction, is it now possible that we can receive less than 1 honor per kill? Especially in AV where you are dividing each kill by like 30 people, would some kills start to round down to 0? Or is the +1 Honor seen after a kill just an estimate, when the actual total added could be like .3 or .7 honor?

I suppose the question can be reworded as, is there any fractional honor awarded and, if not, is it possible an honor gain can be rounded down to 0?

Honor can be gained and totaled within fractions of a whole honor point. All of those "You've gained 0 honor" do add up, and at the end of the night your entire total is rounded off, and calculated for diminishing returns. The rounding happens on your total honor earned during the nightly calculations, and not when each fraction of an honor point is gained.

Q u o t e:
ive nvr seen an estimated total.. it just says kills - 100* lifetime kills 500*
honor ~ 0 todays honor -0 so :O no i dont beleive you

* represent falsified numbers)

Can you post a screenshot? Have you tried using a /console reloadui command to see if it's one of the known display bugs?

Q u o t e:
Okay, but then the finalized honor should never be lower than the total bonus honor, yes?

Correct.

Q u o t e:
Since you're in here..

Drysc, when you kill someone multiple times, how often does that counter reset? For example, if I kill playerX 8 times in one game of AV, then see him again in another game that day and kill him 5 more times, does the '# of times killed' counter reset between games?

If you need me to clarify, let me know. My brain is kinda wracked atm, since I'm taking a quick break from studying for my MCP (test is on Friday).

The diminishing returns reset with the nightly calculation.

Q u o t e:
Mr. Drysc. Why not just set the honor value of everything to the correct value? Why can't you just change the default honor value from 20 to 14?

That's the way it works as it is right now. Everything you see pop up in your combat log, and everything in your honor window has already taken the 30% reduction into account.

Q u o t e:
Then just as I have known for the past week or so... I am getting double-dipped for honor hit. I see the totals in my log- and I get roughly half of that value in the form of true honor.

Diminishing returns would be why you're seeing less honor given than what you see listed in your estimate, which is why it's an estimate, it doesn't take into account diminishing returns. You may also be seeing honor totals from the previous day displayed in your current day's estimate due to a known display bug. That previous honor has already been awarded so you may be seeing the totals and thinking you should be receiving more than you will due to the display issue, but that's just a guess.

Q u o t e:
Nice to see you didnt answer mine.......

The in-game UI doesn't display fractions, but will display 0 while in almost all cases it is actually a fraction of a whole point. The only exception would be if you killed someone 10 times.

"You've received 0 honor" will actually mean "You've received 0.2 honor" or some other fraction of a whole honor point. The UI doesn't deal in point values, so it displays it as 0.

So in this case 0+0+0+0+0+0+0 can actually = 3.6, or whatever sum you can make out of 7 fractions of a whole.

Q u o t e:
I dont know about other people, but the first thing I do when I log in for the day is to check my HONOR. If anyone is like me, they would know that they either have a DISPLAY bug or a partial amount from being on while it was calculated.

I don't know about other people either, which is why I proposed it as a possibility.

Q u o t e:
before the honr change this week (as i cant be bothered to pay attention to such things all the time)

when i killed a champion solo i got 23 honor

when i killed a field marshall, i got 32

these are solo av kills with nobody around

if even ONE other person is around, no way to get over 20 for a kill. you'd see 11-15 at most. just to head off that point.

I passed the information on late yesterday for further investigation. As far as I'm aware it shouldn't be affecting current honor gains (post-reduction 14 honor should be the maximum obtained from an HK), but it's going to be looked into just the same.

Q u o t e:
Now we have the same cycle again. Blizzard announces a USEFUL honor system for once, then it gets nerfed, and then it starts giving us fake numbers? Come on...

The honor system has always given "fake numbers" as it estimates honor gains before diminishing returns. Always.

Is it the best and most straight forward system? Of course not, calculating diminishing returns on the spot and giving honor immediately as it's earned would be ideal. However, we're not currently set up to process those calculations on the fly. If we ever reach the point where we're able to then we would definitely do so.

Q u o t e:

rofl.
If your server can do those numers for thousands of customers once a night...
why can't our computers do those numbers for just one customer at a time... namely our own client.
can't see why basic math is so hard for you guys to program in.

You're proposing that we rely on the client to provide a calculation for the diminishing returns? That's a slippery slope my friend.