Stop ruining PVE for PVP

#0 - March 4, 2008, 4:50 p.m.

I know I can't be alone on this one...

I am continually disgusted by all constant nerfs to pretty much every class (on a rotating basis) to make up for previous nerfs that result in *add flavor of the month pvp class here* being to "stong".

PVE isn't being retuned around these nerfs and just continues making life difficult and just plain frustrating.

I believe there have to be many folks like myself out there that really enjoy PVE content and are getting tired and fed up and almost to the point of looking for a new game or just moving on. I am done trying to figure out how to keep doing the same amount of damage/healing/etc with talents and spells being COMPLETELY changed for PVP.

BTW, yes I am def upset this time b/c of warlock nerfs, but I have been upset about pretty much every nerf in the past b/c I play pretty much EVERY class.

Thanks for support. =)

Kalgan

#44 - March 4, 2008, 9:46 p.m.

Q u o t e:
I know I can't be alone on this one...

I am continually disgusted by all constant nerfs to pretty much every class (on a rotating basis) to make up for previous nerfs that result in *add flavor of the month pvp class here* being to "stong".

PVE isn't being retuned around these nerfs and just continues making life difficult and just plain frustrating.

I believe there have to be many folks like myself out there that really enjoy PVE content and are getting tired and fed up and almost to the point of looking for a new game or just moving on. I am done trying to figure out how to keep doing the same amount of damage/healing/etc with talents and spells being COMPLETELY changed for PVP.

BTW, yes I am def upset this time b/c of warlock nerfs, but I have been upset about pretty much every nerf in the past b/c I play pretty much EVERY class.

Thanks for support. =)

Aaah good point, the constant nerfs explain why the content feels harder and harder to beat each patch.

Kalgan

#71 - March 4, 2008, 9:57 p.m.

Q u o t e:

Not that the topic matters to me, but I'm curious what you actually chalk it up to.

Quite a few things really. To quickly name a few...

- players get better gear over time
- content gets nerfed, rarely buffed (generally for reasons independent of class changes)
- the class buffs pretty much always outweigh the nerfs... generally speaking players damage more, heal more, and mitigate more over the course of a year of patches (assuming the same gear), it's just nerfs are far far more memorable.

Kalgan

#119 - March 4, 2008, 10:11 p.m.

Q u o t e:

I'll give you another hint, since you seem too terribly caught up with yourself to understand:

Player A plays class A.
Player B plays class B.

Class A gets some PvP-related nerf that affects Class A's PvE performance.
Player B now raids in Player A's spot.

GG

We appear to have a far better representation classes/specs in PvE than we ever have in the past. If what you were saying were true in the general case, that wouldn't be true.

Kalgan

#159 - March 4, 2008, 10:23 p.m.

Q u o t e:
Honestly the changes incoming for next patch on current build of 2.4 don't affect PvE much (with the exception of caster tanking for locks and essence of desire encounter), and you can game for greater returns. Heck I'd consider the DK nerf to have a greater effect on demo raiders (lawl) than life tap nerf on general lock raiders.

Still doesn't mean that I agree with the mechanics of the current change (DE + fort makes my ability cost more). Or agree that with the current dynamics of PvP it was a needed change.

I think you're absolutely correct on all counts... not only in that it's virtually guaranteed that the life tap change is a major pve buff once the health/mana pools start getting gamed to maximize it, but also in that we internally question the mechanics of the change and question whether it's necessary in the current dynamics of PvP.

Sometimes you have to try things out for a while to see how they sit. Sometimes they go live, sometimes they don't, it's all just a part of the process. Fortunately (at least from my perspective), our decisions aren't driven by hysteria, one way or the other.

Kalgan

#244 - March 4, 2008, 10:52 p.m.

Q u o t e:
It's nice to see you on the forums "mixing it up" Kalgan :).

I don't think PvE is "ruined" by nerfs, as many are suggesting. It is affected negatively at times, and that's too bad for a lot of people who love PvE in general.

I think the bigger problem is the easiness factor. People calculate rewards not in an absolute sense, but as a percentage of how much effort it takes to achieve that reward. Sometimes, people may enjoy a home cooked gourmet meal more than a frozen dinner, but the gourmet meal will take longer and requires more ingredients which means more thought ahead of time. There is also a risk w/ a gourmet meal that you can screw it up and not get dinner. This is why a lot of the time people choose the frozen dinner. The reward/effort ratio is greater than that of the gourmet meal. Sometimes, if you are not that tired and you're really hungry you'll go for the gourmet meal - but most nights Stouffers is for you....

I definitely think there's a valid argument to be made that the time investment and organizational requirement versus reward aren't balanced well enough right now, but that's a pretty different (albeit important) issue.