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#1 - 2016/04/22 12:00:00 AM
Please use this thread to ask questions related to how things work, mechanically (ie, for your theorycrafting projects). We sometimes leave out information that would be important to your modeling, in order to keep things understandable. We'd be happy to clarify any such things, here. Post your questions and we'll do our best to find answers.

Example of the sort of question : What's the proc rate for Agony granting Soul Shards?

This thread is NOT for feedback, discussion of 'why' something is the way it is, what a better mechanic would be, etc. Those topics are great to discuss, and we want to read that feedback, but please post it in different threads. We'll be aggressively pruning this thread as needed to keep it on topic.

Thanks!

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#9 - 2016/04/22 12:12:00 AM
04/21/2016 05:07 PMPosted by Frostedmages
How do Arcane Missile proc rate buffs work with Arcane Blast? Is it just a base proc rate that is now doubled by Arcane Blast?

Basically, is it (base+modifiers) * 2 or is it (base*2) + modifiers. Modifiers here being things like Ethereal Sensitivity, the T19 set bonus, and Words of Power?


The *2 multiplier is at the end. So it's (Base + Modifiers) * 2.

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#15 - 2016/04/22 12:15:00 AM
04/21/2016 05:07 PMPosted by Lyuben
The tooltip on Rage of the Sleeper is a bit weird. Something about absorbing %1000000 damage and no inclination of duration.

What does this spell actually do? Some people report issues that it doesn't relfect.


We're still in the process of revising this ability, and I think today's build got made while we were in the middle of some changes to it. We're changing it to 33% damage reduction, plus dealing some Physical damage to the attacker that's based on an AP coefficient. What exactly that coefficient is... is currently undecided. Stay tuned.

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#561 - 2016/06/13 10:03:00 AM
06/12/2016 07:30 PMPosted by Wräthfül
06/12/2016 10:45 AMPosted by Lucca
The ability that makes you go from heating up to hot streak does not also count as a heating up proc. In order for what you discussed to happen an ability would need to proc both. So every hot streak proc (from the 2nd crit) would also need to cause the heating up proc and it's my understand that it does not. They want sets of 2 consecutive crits, not chains of crits.


Thank you Lucca. But,

"Hot Streak: Getting two direct-damage critical strikes in a row will make your next Pyroblast or Flamestrike spell instant cast, and cause double the normal Ignite damage"

So, if I understand you correctly, what you are saying is that the tooltip on hot streak is incorrect. Two direct-damage critical strkes in a row will not result in a hot streak if one of the crit's was an instant cast pyro blast? If that is the case, why was it possible, say in WOD (before the new talents) to get 3 and even four consecutive insant pyros? I'm not sure that explanation works. I'm not trying to argue with you, Im just trying to get my head around what is limiting my ability to cast instant pyro's with combustion up in light of my previous experience with repetitive hot streak procs.

Follow me?


Getting a Hot Streak resets the counter. A string of 3 crits gives you a Hot Streak and a Heating Up, not two Hot Streaks. It has always worked this way.

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#587 - 2016/06/23 11:56:00 AM
Hey all. We've been exceptionally busy fixing the last few (well, thousands of) bugs and design issues for Legion, so have fallen behind at this thread. We'll still try to catch up on all the great questions of the past 11 pages, soon, though.

Wanted to stop by and share a bit of theorycrafting info about one of the new things in this latest build though, Flurry. As theorycrafters know, whether a spell is going to miss/hit/crit is determined when the cast bar completes and the missile leaves your hand. That's also when most stats from the caster are taken into account.

This has always been awkward for Shatter, which is extra crit chance if the target is frozen. As experienced Frost Mages will likely tell you, what matters for Shatter is whether the target is frozen when the missile leaves your hand, not when it impacts. That's why the classic Frostbolt+Ice Lance (aka "Shattercombo") works.

However, that's not what you'd expect as a player; you'd expect that it matters whether the target is frozen when the missile impacts them. You'd expect that with Winter's Chill from Flurry, the 2nd and 3rd hits, and the Ice Lance you cast immediately afterward would all benefit from Shatter.

In the current build, you'll find that we added some logic to account for those expectations. However, in the next build, you'll find that we've gone a leap further:

Due to the importance of Shatter, Frost Mage damage will be calculated on impact, rather than on finishing the cast. This applies to Frostbolt, Flurry, Ebonbolt, Ice Lance, Glacial Spike, Comet Storm (other spells have no missile/travel time). This means that, for example, you could Freeze a target while a Frostbolt is in the air, and it will benefit from Shatter on impact.

We also made a noteworthy change to how freeze effects break. We removed the protection from breaking in the first 0.5sec of their life, and instead made them break 0.4sec after they take enough damage to break, rather than immediately when they take enough damage to break. This will allow the classic "Shattercombo" to still work.

And a heads-up about how this may change in the future: In a later patch, we're going to consider having only Shatter be calculated on impact, and everything else still be calculated on cast (as before), but that was not an option for 7.0.

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#602 - 2016/06/29 03:52:00 AM
Some info relevant to Protection Warrior and Vengeance Demon Hunter theorycrafters:

Previously, rage income from damage taken was based on the % of max health that you took. That had negative synergy with things like stamina trinkets or Last Stand. We've tweaked that logic slightly in today's build, to preserve the same general effect, but remove the downside.

Instead of using your current max health in that calculation, we'll use your expected max health. That's based on a number of factors, including your item level, class, and artifact progression.

Minute details:
1. Find your weighted average item level (ie, weighted per slot budget).
2. Evaluate the RandPropPoints game table for an epic chestpiece at that item level.
3. Multiply by 8.484262 for Warriors, or 8.318556 for Demon Hunters, for the expected budget of a full set of gear, with 1 trinket having a normal amount of Stamina (different between classes because they Shields have a higher budget than a second 1H weapon).
4. Add your base Stamina.
5. Multiple by any baseline class Stamina multiplier passives (*1.05*1.1 for Warriors, *1.05*1.2 for Demon Hunters, currently).
6. Multiply by your artifact's current passive stamina multiplier. This does not include any traits that multiply stamina, just the passive for how many traits you've unlocked (currently up to 30%).
7. Multiply by 60 for the Stamina -> Health conversion rate.
8. That's your expected max health. Proceed with rage generation as before.

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#605 - 2016/06/29 06:06:00 AM
06/28/2016 02:45 PMPosted by Ariellè
Does this also affect Bristling Fur?


For the moment, no.

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#613 - 2016/06/29 09:05:00 AM
06/28/2016 05:08 PMPosted by Cinnamilk
So, my first impression of the explanation for Titanforged is that the probability distribution for item level upgrades follows a geometric distribution that is truncated on the right, which I'll represent at Geom*(p,k) where p is the probability of that process failing (or succeeding, depending on how you define the distribution), and k is the max number of events before automatic failure (related to max unobtainable ilvl, and the base ilvl of the particular item by k=(max-base)/5). Geom*(p,k) has support x∈{0,1,2,...,k}.

My question is a two-parter:
1) Are the probabilities of a each roll individually the same as other rolls before or after it, before truncating at the max obtainable iLvl? This would mean that we can represent the iLvl distribution of an item as Geom*(p,k).
2) If we can represent the ilvl distribution of item n as Geom*(p_n,k_n) and item m as Geom*(p_m,k_m), do we have that for any two items that p_m = p_n? In other words, is the success probability for this system global among all items, or is it individual for the source of each item?

-edited for clarity


This is one of the few cases where we will not be sharing details.

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#623 - 2016/07/01 12:27:00 AM
06/30/2016 10:18 AMPosted by Salarissia
For boss abilities that require "active mitigation" to be up, why do only some of them work?

As an example, for God-King Skovald, the "Savage Blade" ability states, "...and applies Ragged Slash if the target is not protected with active mitigation." However, if I don't have Shield Block up and have Ignore Pain instead, the DoT is still applied. This also happens on other bosses with similar abilities (ex. Dargrul's "Molten Crash" hits through Ignore Pain and does the knockback as well), and it's not isolated, every boss that requires an AM-check this happens with (and other Warriors have stated similar experiences).


Take a look at the dungeon journal ability tooltip. They now describe exactly what works for them.

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#628 - 2016/07/01 03:01:00 AM
06/30/2016 10:58 AMPosted by Salarissia
Yeah, just logged in to check. Some of them do state Shield Block - some of them simply talk about Active Mitigation.

Tirathon Satheril's [Darkstrikes] doesn't say anything but AM, as does Dargrul's [Molten Crash], though it seems both don't work with Ignore Pain, only Shield Block. I'd assume it'd be something with Death Strike for DKs.

EDIT: Screenshots of Dungeon Journal: http://imgur.com/a/tws7S


Looks like Darkstrikes and Molten Crash tooltips are bugged. Let us know if you find others still written that way (in the bug report forums, not here).

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#631 - 2016/07/01 03:39:00 PM
06/28/2016 04:06 PMPosted by Celestalon
06/28/2016 02:45 PMPosted by Ariellè
Does this also affect Bristling Fur?


For the moment, no.


Update: We went ahead and switched to this for Bristling Fur and Gift of the Ox as well. The coefficients of expected gear budget are 8.318556 for Druids, and 8.495809 for Monks.

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#632 - 2016/07/01 03:41:00 PM
07/01/2016 12:27 AMPosted by Haarim
I was hoping you could share the calculation for how haste affects energy generation for feral druids.

Thx.


Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the question, but there's no calculation for this, it is self-defined. 10% Haste is 10% energy regeneration, same as any other resource that's affected by Haste.

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#634 - 2016/07/02 05:00:00 AM
07/01/2016 01:53 PMPosted by Delritha
06/28/2016 01:52 PMPosted by Celestalon
1. Find your weighted average item level (ie, weighted per slot budget).
2. Evaluate the RandPropPoints game table for an epic chestpiece at that item level.


I'm extremely confused by these first two points; especially the second. I don't think we HAVE this RandPropPoints game table available to work with. The rest of the points are pretty self explainatory but these first two are; at least to me baffling confusing.


I'm not sure what you all call the table; it's whatever you'd look in to find that an ilvl 850 chestpiece has a budget of 2466, for example.

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#637 - 2016/07/02 06:14:00 AM
07/01/2016 03:40 PMPosted by Aladya
07/01/2016 03:00 PMPosted by Celestalon
I'm not sure what you all call the table; it's whatever you'd look in to find that an ilvl 850 chestpiece has a budget of 2466, for example.


All ilvl 850 chest pieces have
1297 primary stat
1945 sta
And the combination of their 2 secondary stats is equal to 1726

Not 100% sure how you get from this to 2466 unless you give us another budget at 860ilvl for example.


2707 at 860.

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#651 - 2016/07/06 08:58:00 AM
06/29/2016 02:13 PMPosted by Binkenstein
Another question: Does Chain Lightning still have the 1/3rd multiplier for Overloads, or is this calculated on cast now?


Chain Lightning has an independent chance to trigger an Overload on each of its targets, which is 1/5 of your normal Overload chance.

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#652 - 2016/07/06 09:13:00 AM
07/02/2016 11:53 PMPosted by Marokk
From Agromat on MMO-C in regards to the new "expected health" rage gen formula:

[quote]I'm not sure if this is a bug or theorycrafting question. Some other tanks and I are seeing dramatic increases in rage generation from damage taken from removing a single ring (about 17% faster resource gain), and that seems unintentional.

I tried to do the math to see what's going on. Say I'm wearing full ilvl 850 epic gear, and I take off one ring. Here's what happens to the rage gain formula:
Step 1: A ring's weight is 9/16 as much as a chest piece. Calculating my weighted average ilvl, I get 807. (My unweighted average ilvl is now 797.)

Step 2: The RandPropPoints value for ilvl 850 is 2466, and for 807 it's 1688.

Step 3: I multiply the RandPropPoints values I got by 8.484262. For ilvl 850 that's 20,922. This value should be about the same as the total amount of stamina I get from a full set of gear, assuming I'm getting stamina from one of my trinkets. I looked up ilvl 850 epic items on wowhead and summed their stamina in this way. For ilvl 850, I got 20,528. That's pretty close, so it seems the expected max health formula is performing well and my math is roughly right.

Now I look at the 807 ilvl case. Multiplying 1688 by 8.484262 gives 14,321. However, if I've just removed one ring, my actual stamina from gear is now 19,174. The estimated health is now about right for if I were wearing a full set of 807 gear (14,051 stam on gear), but it's off for a character in full-850-except-for-an-empty-ring-slot.
The result of this is that the rage formula is now calculating rage as if I have dramatically less health than I actually do. My math says I'll be getting 33% more rage than before. In testing, I actually get about 17% more rage from the same damage taken, so I think I'm missing something, maybe about how weighted average item level is being calculated. Still, 17% faster rage gen seems like a strong enough bonus that I might consider taking off the ring.

I'm not sure what the fix is, but it seems unintended for tanks to get dramatically increased resource gain by intentionally removing gear. Maybe the average weighted ilvl formula should ignore slot ilvls that are far below the average of the other slots?


Thanks. This is on our radar, and will be fixed. It kinda falls under the category of exploit prevention so I won't give full details on the exact math, but it won't be a gain to take any gear off or use substantially lower ilvl gear.

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#653 - 2016/07/06 09:15:00 AM
06/22/2016 11:45 AMPosted by Totallite
How does Clarity of Will's cap work? It seems to be somewhere between 20-40% of target's health but it varies a lot based on stats and effects like Grace.


The cap is twice the size of the CoW cast, checked each time you cast it.

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#654 - 2016/07/06 09:17:00 AM
06/22/2016 07:11 PMPosted by Cyous
Very simple question:

Does Blessing of the Ancients: An'she have a Haste cap?


No.

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#655 - 2016/07/06 09:19:00 AM
06/12/2016 09:39 PMPosted by Miniaug
What is the distribution (2/3/4) of Festering Wound stacks?


Uniform.

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#656 - 2016/07/06 09:24:00 AM
06/13/2016 06:10 PMPosted by Swol
For Enhancement:

Does Hot Hand proc off melee attack cast successes, or melee attack hits? I can't tell from logs if Stormstrike gives two chances to proc or one, as an example. Hard to tell if it can proc from windfury attacks as well. It won't have a huge impact on the total number of procs, but, just wanted to model it how it is working, for accuracy.


Hot Hand is RPPM, so it doesn't matter. It's currently 3.5 RPPM (+haste). You can see the proc rate on 201900 if it changes: http://legion.wowhead.com/spell=201900/hot-hand

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#657 - 2016/07/06 09:26:00 AM
06/12/2016 01:49 PMPosted by Binkenstein
What's the Flame Shock spread range for Path of Flame? In Warlords the spread mechanic for Lava Lash/Flame Shock was noted in Lava Lash (12 yards) but testing this in-game will be somewhat difficult.


8 yards. (This is also usually the standard for "nearby" in AoE damage tooltips).

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#658 - 2016/07/06 09:28:00 AM
06/10/2016 04:29 PMPosted by Cyous
RPPM Question/Confirmation:

(1 + 3 * ( A / ( 60 / RPPM ) - 1.5 ) ) * RPPM * B / 60

ENCOUNTER_START // Boss Combat:: set A, B to 0, 0

RPPM: Fixed value. (Any scaling factors, such as Haste?)
A = TimeSinceLastProc (min: 0, max: nil)
B = TimeSinceLastProcAttempt (min: 0, max: 10)

I'm trying to display the proc chance in-game, but A needs to be much higher to bring the chance out of the negatives. (And from the proc chance, I'll try to approximate the time to our next proc.)

- - - - -

So, I added parenthesizes in hopes to troubleshoot.

(1 + (3 * ( A / ( 60 / RPPM )) - 1.5 ) ) *( RPPM * (B / 60))


The unlucky streak protection (everything in the "A" factor) is minimum 1. It's only a bonus that kicks in after you've gone 1.5*(mean proc time) with no proc.

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#660 - 2016/07/06 09:44:00 AM
06/08/2016 10:12 PMPosted by Peachpies
Should Chi-Ji's crane heal cast time scale with his haste.


Yes, that's fixed in an upcoming build.

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#665 - 2016/07/07 12:12:00 AM
07/06/2016 07:34 AMPosted by Geminisoul
The new Guardian mastery which Increases your maximum health and healing received by X%, how does the +healing received work with absorbs?


In the next build, it'll increase absorbs received by X%. It won't show up as a separate combat log entry like the healing does though.

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#669 - 2016/07/07 03:49:00 AM
FYI, in the next next build, Lightning Bolt for Enhancement will reset the swing timer, unless you have Overcharge (thus curbing the Take-Boulderfist-But-Fill-Empty-GCDs-With-Lightning-Bolts problem).

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#673 - 2016/07/07 06:41:00 AM
07/06/2016 03:05 PMPosted by Nyrkki
07/06/2016 10:12 AMPosted by Celestalon
In the next build, it'll increase absorbs received by X%. It won't show up as a separate combat log entry like the healing does though.


Will there be similar change/fix for Celestial Fortune of brewmaster?


Yes.

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#692 - 2016/07/17 06:03:00 AM
Currently has a full chance to proc. Not likely to be an issue, but if it becomes one (i.e. haste breakpoints start to matter), we can prorate the proc chance on a partial tick.

Off the top of my head, the only periodic I can think of where we currently do this is Doom.

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#699 - 2016/07/17 01:45:00 PM
07/16/2016 04:15 PMPosted by Arcádia
Will we go live with the 750ms GCD floor or was that changed again in the meantime?


That's still in place.

07/16/2016 05:29 PMPosted by Sartanes
Backdraft, Destruction Warlock first tier Talent. If I wear no gear, the duration of the Buff is 5 seconds as statted in the tooltip. However, if I wear some haste, the duration is decreased (e.g. the Duration scales with haste). Is this intended?


It is--the rhythm of how you use the talent (knowing that, say, after a Conflag, you can cast 3 hasted Incinerates) should remain the same regardless of your gear level.

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#739 - 2016/08/26 01:36:00 AM
08/06/2016 12:15 AMPosted by Suplift
Quick question, is Refreshing Jade Wind a true smart heal?


It's the standard 6 random injured targets.

08/24/2016 09:52 PMPosted by Geodew
Is base mp5 still 2.5% mana? Is Spirit still there and just hidden, or how's that work? Basically how can I calculate mana regen at 100 and 110?


Mana regen for healers is 4% of max mana as MP5 (max mana that your spec has without any bonuses). i.e. it's always 44,000 MP5 at L110.