Regional FlagBlizzard is still ignoring players.Source
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Eslin
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#1 - 2016/07/01 04:07:00 AM
We had a huge amount of responses for the PVP Q&A thread, and Blizzard has ignored all the inconvenient questions from it.

Things that were asked but Holinka completely ignored:
  • Why have there been almost no Blue responses on the beta PVP forum? PVE players get issues responded to promptly, but the PVP players have given massive amounts of feedback and it has all been ignored.
  • Why has PVP tuning been so slow? PVE tuning showed rapid changes, but with only two months left to go issues like melee classes having 100% uptime on ranged have no even begun to be addressed.
  • What will be done about rating deflation in rated PVP? Due to dwindling player number players who previously had 2600+ ratings are now fighting over 2100, the loss of players is heavily deflating rating which is tied to how likely good gear is to drop and Blizzard has done nothing.
  • Why are completely unrelated spells on the same diminishing returns category? Cyclone and dragon's breath are both under the fear category.
  • Why has all stat customisation been stripped from PVP? Players can no longer choose anything about their character's stats.
  • Why did you break your promise regarding instanced PVP having a flat power level for everyone? We were told that high rated players wouldn't have a gear advantage over lower rated players, but you've since backtracked and all you've done is remove the ability to customise and left in the gear imbalance.
  • Why won't PVP templates be active in world PVP? If imbalances are fixed via those templates as you plan, what is the reasoning behind deliberately unbalanced individual interactions in world PVP?
    And my personal favourite:
    Will you please actually read and address questions regarding what the PvP community feels are burning, important issues instead of just cherry pick questions again this year like you did last year.

    Pick questions here with the most up votes even if they might point out faults in your design and possibly reflect negatively on your company. We are passionate about PvP and only want to improve things.

    Apparently not!

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    Community Manager
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    #61 - 2016/07/01 06:01:00 PM
    06/30/2016 09:07 PMPosted by Eslin
    We had a huge amount of responses for the PVP Q&A thread, and Blizzard has ignored all the inconvenient questions from it.

    Things that were asked but Holinka completely ignored:
  • Why have there been almost no Blue responses on the beta PVP forum? PVE players get issues responded to promptly, but the PVP players have given massive amounts of feedback and it has all been ignored.
  • Why has PVP tuning been so slow? PVE tuning showed rapid changes, but with only two months left to go issues like melee classes having 100% uptime on ranged have no even begun to be addressed.
  • What will be done about rating deflation in rated PVP? Due to dwindling player number players who previously had 2600+ ratings are now fighting over 2100, the loss of players is heavily deflating rating which is tied to how likely good gear is to drop and Blizzard has done nothing.
  • Why are completely unrelated spells on the same diminishing returns category? Cyclone and dragon's breath are both under the fear category.
  • Why has all stat customisation been stripped from PVP? Players can no longer choose anything about their character's stats.
  • Why did you break your promise regarding instanced PVP having a flat power level for everyone? We were told that high rated players wouldn't have a gear advantage over lower rated players, but you've since backtracked and all you've done is remove the ability to customise and left in the gear imbalance.
  • Why won't PVP templates be active in world PVP? If imbalances are fixed via those templates as you plan, what is the reasoning behind deliberately unbalanced individual interactions in world PVP?
    And my personal favourite:
    Will you please actually read and address questions regarding what the PvP community feels are burning, important issues instead of just cherry pick questions again this year like you did last year.

    Pick questions here with the most up votes even if they might point out faults in your design and possibly reflect negatively on your company. We are passionate about PvP and only want to improve things.

    Apparently not!


  • Many of these questions were answered - maybe not in the same wording that you see here. It's a bit silly for me to go through one by one and respond with what was answered, but you can check out wowhead's overview of the Q&A here.

    Just looking at that list, and having listened to the Q&A, I can tell you they discussed...

    • Why has PVP tuning been so slow? PVE tuning showed rapid changes, but with only two months left to go issues like melee classes having 100% uptime on ranged have no even begun to be addressed.
    • Why has all stat customisation been stripped from PVP? Players can no longer choose anything about their character's stats.
    • Why won't PVP templates be active in world PVP? If imbalances are fixed via those templates as you plan, what is the reasoning behind deliberately unbalanced individual interactions in world PVP?

    What I think is more important to note, however, is that all of these questions were on the list to be answered, but Holinka and Lore ran out of time to discuss more of them. Looking at the list of questions we had for this Q&A, we had roughly 60 questions from the US forums, EU forums, and Twitter - so, yes, there were a lot of items to discuss and we, unfortunately, did not hit all of them. Focusing entirely on questions that concern only a minority would be quite unfair, however, so we did answer questions on both ends of the spectrum.

    Like others said, just because you knew the answer to one or more of the questions does not mean it wasn't worth discussing for players who may not be following along as closely as you are. Anyways, adding fuel about us "ignoring" the "inconvenient questions" is completely fabricated and really not helpful to the conversation overall.

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    Community Manager
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    #105 - 2016/07/01 08:50:00 PM
    07/01/2016 01:37 PMPosted by Herbster

    Many of these questions were answered - maybe not in the same wording that you see here. It's a bit silly for me to go through one by one and respond with what was answered, but you can check out wowhead's overview of the Q&A here.

    Just looking at that list, and having listened to the Q&A, I can tell you they discussed...

    • Why has PVP tuning been so slow? PVE tuning showed rapid changes, but with only two months left to go issues like melee classes having 100% uptime on ranged have no even begun to be addressed.
    • Why has all stat customisation been stripped from PVP? Players can no longer choose anything about their character's stats.
    • Why won't PVP templates be active in world PVP? If imbalances are fixed via those templates as you plan, what is the reasoning behind deliberately unbalanced individual interactions in world PVP?

    What I think is more important to note, however, is that all of these questions were on the list to be answered, but Holinka and Lore ran out of time to discuss more of them. Looking at the list of questions we had for this Q&A, we had roughly 60 questions from the US forums, EU forums, and Twitter - so, yes, there were a lot of items to discuss and we, unfortunately, did not hit all of them. Focusing entirely on questions that concern only a minority would be quite unfair, however, so we did answer questions on both ends of the spectrum.

    Like others said, just because you knew the answer to one or more of the questions does not mean it wasn't worth discussing for players who may not be following along as closely as you are. Anyways, adding fuel about us "ignoring" the "inconvenient questions" is completely fabricated and really not helpful to the conversation overall.


    Saying they ran out of time is a BS excuse. There is no one putting a time limit on them but themselves. Total copout answer.


    If you notice at the end of the stream, both Holinka and Lore state they had a meeting to get on to. ¬_¬

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    #160 - 2016/07/01 11:27:00 PM
    Hi, this is Brian Holinka and our good folks on the community team asked if I could help address some of your concerns. I understand that it's frustrating when you feel your question didn't get addressed. Unfortunately, despite our best efforts, we weren't able to address every question that was sent our way. But, we did answer over 25 questions that were submitted on the forum and over twitter. I know people feel like we were repeating information at times, but keep in mind, all of these questions were submitted to us. Someone out there did not know the answer and asked. While many community members are in tune with everything going on in the Legion Beta, a lot of other people are not.

    I'll do my best to answer the questions below that you felt were very important but we didn't get to.

    06/30/2016 09:07 PMPosted by Eslin

  • Why have there been almost no Blue responses on the beta PVP forum? PVE players get issues responded to promptly, but the PVP players have given massive amounts of feedback and it has all been ignored.

  • I think it's fair to say we haven't been as active on the PvP beta forums as many people there would have liked. We certainly visited the forums quite a bit, reading the forums as a part of our feedback process. We frequently used information there in our internal discussions and adjusted a number of honor talents as direct result. But it's true that we didn't post there that often. We'll discuss with community how we can better manage that experience for you. We just got really focused on making the game.

    06/30/2016 09:07 PMPosted by Eslin

  • Why has PVP tuning been so slow? PVE tuning showed rapid changes, but with only two months left to go issues like melee classes having 100% uptime on ranged have no even begun to be addressed.

  • There are a few reasons it feels like PvP tuning has been slow. The primary reason is bad communication on our part. We've made PvP specific adjustments to over 80 spells and adjusted the PvP templates on every spec. But we haven't kept everyone up to date on what's been changing. We should have done a better job. The second reason is that our PvP systems are new in Legion. As an example, our PvP stat template system wasn't properly granting the extra stats casters get from their weapon. Unfortunately, this is part of the game development process. Things aren't always working as expected in Beta. Regardless, communication was our primary failing here and we will do better.

    With respect to melee mobility specifically, we did discuss that at 1:10 in the interview.

    06/30/2016 09:07 PMPosted by Eslin

  • What will be done about rating deflation in rated PVP? Due to dwindling player number players who previously had 2600+ ratings are now fighting over 2100, the loss of players is heavily deflating rating which is tied to how likely good gear is to drop and Blizzard has done nothing.

  • There is a tradeoff to using fixed ratings for rewards and one of them is that each season ratings are different. We have always seen this across regions. For example, Korea and Taiwan are far smaller than North America and Europe. Achieving high ratings in some brackets there is extremely difficult. For titles like Gladiator, we always use percentages to ensure the prestige of the reward remains the same. But the primary purpose of the rating gated rewards like the Elite gear set is to give players immediate rewards for hitting specific rating milestones. The upside of this system is you can get the rewards immediately, which feels great. The downside is that sometimes those rewards are harder to get. We think it's an acceptable tradeoff.

    Looking at the current season data and comparing it with the past two seasons, I don't see the drop off in rating you're talking about. Perhaps some brackets have fallen 50-100 points, but by no means has anything fallen 500 points. That's just not accurate.

    06/30/2016 09:07 PMPosted by Eslin

  • Why are completely unrelated spells on the same diminishing returns category? Cyclone and dragon's breath are both under the fear category.

  • Before the Diminishing Return (DR) system was introduced into WoW, "stunlocking" was a common phenomenon. DR prevented "stunlocking" but it feels crappy to use ability only to see "immune." DR categories were added so a class can use their different crowd control spells to full effect at least once but repeated application would not result in "stunlock."

    Over time the number of categories increased to 12 which we consider an unacceptable number. In Warlords, it was reduced to 5 categories: Root, Silence, Stun, Disorient and Incapacitate. Roots, Stuns and Silences are fairly easy to recognize as their behavior is generally the same across all spells. There are a number of spells in the game that remove player control but break on some degree of damage. We did not want all of these spells on a single DR category. For example, Fear, Cyclone and Dragon's Breath are on the Disorient category while Polymorph, Sap and Freezing Trap are on the Incapacitate category. It is not necessary that all of the spells on each DR category are thematically or functionally the same. We primarily placed these spells in their respective categories for gameplay reasons. In some cases it is meant to allow a class to use all of their spells without overlapping DR categories. In other cases, it is meant to disrupt synergies between classes that can chain to much crowd control together. In the case of Dragon's Breath, Mages have Polymorph which is an Incapacitate. Dragon's Breath is a Disorient so that you can cast those two spells one after the other and get their full effect.

    We're satisfied with the current assignment of crowd control spells to their respective DR categories, but please let us know if you have any feedback about them.

    06/30/2016 09:07 PMPosted by Eslin

  • Why has all stat customisation been stripped from PVP? Players can no longer choose anything about their character's stats.

  • If you'd like to see my answer to this question, it was addressed at 42:50 in the twitch interview. The short answer is that some stat combinations are problematic for PvP gameplay and we'd like to be able to reign them in. We also feel like Honor Talents can fill the customization gap that has been lost. But we're also open to introducing Honor talents in the future that offer some stat customization. Let us know how you feel about that idea.

    06/30/2016 09:07 PMPosted by Eslin

  • Why did you break your promise regarding instanced PVP having a flat power level for everyone? We were told that high rated players wouldn't have a gear advantage over lower rated players, but you've since backtracked and all you've done is remove the ability to customise and left in the gear imbalance.

  • I apologize if there was some confusion, but I did not make any such promise. I just rewatched the interview where I first discussed the PvP templates with Bajheera during the third NA qualifier cup last year. During that interview, I laid out the system as it is today in Legion including that higher ilevel gear would offer more power and that higher rated players would receive higher ilevel gear. I'm sorry if that message got lost along the way, but I certainly have never misrepresented how the system would work.

    Here is that interview for reference: https://youtu.be/zhj3bJofjE4?t=436

    06/30/2016 09:07 PMPosted by Eslin

  • Why won't PVP templates be active in world PVP? If imbalances are fixed via those templates as you plan, what is the reasoning behind deliberately unbalanced individual interactions in world PVP?

  • I discussed our reasoning behind why PvP templates do not activate in the world at 40:55. In short, the two reasons were that they would provide a significant power increase for ungeared players and we'd like there to be a place in World of Warcraft where balance is far less structured.

    I hope this helps fill in some gaps left by the interview. We tried to answer some questions that weren't really favorable to us like "why aren't you making new battlegrounds?" and "why is all the gear coming from strongboxes?" Many consider the directions where heading on those issues controversial so we wanted to explain our reasoning.

    Thanks again for your passion for World of Warcraft and PvP.

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    #163 - 2016/07/01 11:30:00 PM
    07/01/2016 01:37 PMPosted by Herbster
    Saying they ran out of time is a BS excuse. There is no one putting a time limit on them but themselves. Total copout answer.

    Yeah, that meeting probably could have been rescheduled. For what it was worth, it was about how we're handling cheaters, so it was a worthwhile meeting.

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    #179 - 2016/07/01 11:51:00 PM
    07/01/2016 04:28 PMPosted by Midare
    07/01/2016 04:19 PMPosted by Notagin
    His reply sort of, kind of makes sense. It looks like the pvp templates will only be switched on for instanced pvp like BGs and arenas. World pvp isn't instanced although they didn't specifically address how or if the template system would work in the new pvp zones. This is a pretty big change for Blizzard. Much bigger than their usual baby step moves.
    They didn't explain why, while doing PvP, even in the open world, the PvP stats won't be available when " the pvp stat templates up your ilvl" and this is exactly how it worked during WoD and how still works.

    So no, it does not make sense. They said they might check it for duels, and that's it. But PvP stats while doing PvP quests or PvP related activities in general won't happen because... is not instanced? But duels are ok?

    This isn't "baby steps" this is a mediocre decision for a problem they already solved in WoD and has been working wonderfully.


    This is a fair critique but there is a fundamental difference. With PvP item level on gear, you must acquire the gear to have its ilevel increased. With PvP stat templates, you do not need to acquire any gear. A player in quest greens would have a PvP stat template activated.

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    #195 - 2016/07/02 12:12:00 AM
    Quick followup question if you have a moment:

    Will the PvP spell multipliers work in WPvP at least?.


    Excellent question. Yes PvP spell multipliers work in WPvP.