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Regional FlagFEEDBACK: The Underhold (Flexible) (Show MVP Posts)Source
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#1 - 2013/08/10 02:29:00 AM
Please use this thread to share feedback on The Underhold on Flexible mode.

When giving feedback, please specify your group size, and give some indication of the group makeup (100% guild group, general chat PUG, etc.) and raiding background.

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#4 - 2013/08/10 04:27:00 AM
08/09/2013 08:57 PMPosted by Vynestra
I didn't realize you guys tested the second part in flex already o.o?

We didn't. But there are a couple of bugs with bosses in that wing in the current build, so Wing #3 it is!

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#15 - 2013/08/10 02:53:00 PM
We stated up-front that we're pretty sure this is overtuned for the intended audience right now, but we tend to intentionally overshoot the mark on PTR: If a fight is too easy, then the feedback we get from everyone is "we killed it" and we don't learn much; if a fight is too hard, then there's a spectrum ranging from "we killed it" to "we almost had it" to "lol is this for real?" and we can fine-tune accordingly.

With respect to Malkorok (or any bosses, really), the most useful feedback for groups is going to be what the point of failure was: Tank damage? Hitting the berserk timer? Dying during the Blood Rage phase? Attrition due to people failing to avoid Breath of Y'Shaarj? Something else?

We're going to make this easier, that's certain. It's just a matter of how, and there are many possibilities.

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#19 - 2013/08/10 04:43:00 PM
Let's keep this thread focused on Malkorok, Spoils, and Thok Flexible feedback. You're welcome to start a separate thread if you want to discuss PTR testing and raid tuning, and I promise I'll read it.

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#33 - 2013/08/11 05:07:00 AM
Many thanks for the excellent feedback thus far.

On Malkorok in particular, a bit more breathing room between the final Implosions and Breath wouldn't hurt (on Normal as well), and Blood Rage is actually doing more damage than it should be for our current Flexible tuning (a bug).

As for Flexible mode in general, we'll be reducing the overall difficulty relative to Normal across the board for our next PTR test. It's also quite possible (likely, even) that specific mechanics are overtuned on Normal as well, which will of course translate to excessive difficulty on Flexible as well -- we don't consider our Normal mode tuning final yet by any means.

I'd like to briefly clarify Flexible mode's target audience and what that means regarding how we tune the content: Flexible mode is primarily for roughly the audience served by 10-player Normal raiding in Wrath of the Lich King (10 Normal used to be a tier lower than 25 Normal). Not every guild that raids is a raiding guild, if that makes sense. I'd say that Flexible mode is for social groups that raid; Normal mode is for raiding guilds (and Heroic is for hardcore raiding guilds). That distinction consists of factors such as whether or not the group will ever recruit based on class needs, or remove someone based on performance (or even openly criticize them).

But a friends-and-family group is far from a ragtag pickup group. We're assuming that you have a leader running the show, are communicating, and are willing and able to coordinate a strategy and execute individual mechanics. Also, unlike Looking For Raid, which has a relatively flat difficulty level and which is designed to be successfully completed by all appropriately-geared players, Flexible mode entails progression. You'll learn and farm earlier fights to work your way up towards the more demanding ones deeper in the zone. A boss like Malkorok is Boss 9 of 14, and is generally designed as such. I'd compare him to bosses like Rotface or Festergut in Icecrown Citadel. Those certainly saw plenty of PUG action later in the 3.3 patch cycle, when the zone-wide Icecrown buff had ramped up a bit and the strategies were widely-known.

Now, will players form PUGs for Flexible Siege of Orgrimmar? Absolutely -- and we're excited at the prospect. But that's an organic process that will evolve over time, if we get the tuning right. I don't recall very many Trade chat PUGs waltzing into Icecrown Citadel in January 2010 and killing Festergut.