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Regional FlagHoly getting nerfed? Ret staying broken? What?Source
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Triumvir
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#1 - 2013/03/02 11:43:00 PM
Q: Ret is much less viable at high ratings? % of players in glad range is much lower than any other spec/class

A: It is really hard to isolate the effects of paladins who just go Holy because heals are always good and Holy is a little imba.


Me: So im sorry, but im a little bit confused. Firstly, what do Paladins who just go Holy have to do w/ this question? is he trying to say that all the Paladins who are in Glad range as Holy magically played Ret and then re-speced for giggles? Anyone care to explain to me what he is trying to say? As well, Holy is good, but... honestly, imba? a bit of a stretch id say, the spec is balanced.

Q: The ratio of high rated Rets to total Rets is very low. This proves Rets are weak.

A: Or that Holy is so OP that any sane paladin goes Holy. Analysis is never that simple or we would have solved all this long ago.

Me: So every Ret is in fact insane for choosing that spec in the first place? ok, im sure we all knew that, I did anyways, but what else are we getting told here? That since Holy is strong that Ret should stay broken and all Paladins should roll Holy? whats the point of a talent tree?

Once again, the success of Holy Paladins this season is getting used in a very sad way to overshadow and justify keeping Rets down

p.s. See what he says? Holy is no longer imba, its "so OP". alright...


Q: I PVP as a holy paladin and I agree. We've always been a defensive class. It was a mistake to give us so much CC.

A: But nobody used Holy before because they had no offensive pressure. They do now and they're popular. Just a bit OP.

Me: Ok, I can agree that Holy never rly had any offensive pressure as far as CC goes, that is if we dont count the first 1-2? seasons of Wotlk, but ok nvm. Holy was solid tons of times before, and is generally one of the strongest Healing specs. Was op a few times, but that is sorted. And imo? thats fine, if a spec works good and is not op then its fine.

p.s. Holy is apparently "just a bit OP" now... kay.

Q: Healing is a completely different role in arena. One does not simply switch from Ret for the first time and be 2200+ at Holy.

A: Of course not. But how many players have heard "No room for Ret - we'll take you if you swap to heals?" Happens all the time.

Me: Is it just me, and plx tell me if it is, but did he just contradict himself here? from what I can see we are getting told that Blizzard is lacking conclusive evidence to prove that Ret is in a bad shape... but then they tell us that ppl not wanting to take Ret to PvP or PvE happens all the time?

Alright... so from what I can see, mentioning that Holy is OP and imba in 3 out of the 4 questions that are generally about Ret tells me that Holy is gonna get stuffed. As well, their constant denial of what is going on w/ Rets indicates that no real changes are going to happen. Ret will get some love in 5.2, no questions there, our dmg will go up by a nudge, but the main problem remains, we are the #1 target for zerging down due to not having a realistic PvP defensive kit for this expansion.

Iv read countless times how Ret is fine, how there is no proof that Ret is bad or lacking in anything and how Ret is perfectly balanced... and then we get a utility buff, a heavy healing buff and a dmg buff? So what was the point of bsing us in the first place? was it just to prove ur ignorance? or just to stick it to the Paladin community for bringing up suggestions that would help the spec work?

7 out of 10 times when a Ret questions is answered it makes perfectly no sense. Going from the "Ohh there is a bout 10 million times more Rets then any other class in the game" or the ever favorite "We are buffing Rogues by a ton but not Paladins because there is a ton more Paladins the Rogues" (Not the exact quotes, but this is what they were basically trying to say.

And what about the last 3 questions u ask? simple rly, they are questions to questions, not only is it considered extremely rude to follow a questions w/ a question, but its arrogant and disrespectful to the paying community.

I will say this since I generally always do when Id like to have a answer, so id like to ask a blue to comment if possible, but since is a Paladin topic, I know it wont happen (No emo, just realistic).

Anywho, getting tiered, would like to hear some thoughts from the players here, not just Paladins, since im sure every one of em will agree w/ me, and every Ret out there understands my frustration. Id like to get some serious answers here, but from my long time experience on this forum I know its not possible, and all fan boys that I have here will try to mock and diss me here.

I only ask that u keep the shenanigans to a reasonable lvl.

Ty.

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#70 - 2013/03/04 04:33:00 PM
02/03/2013 23:43Posted by Triumvir
Me: So im sorry, but im a little bit confused. Firstly, what do Paladins who just go Holy have to do w/ this question? is he trying to say that all the Paladins who are in Glad range as Holy magically played Ret and then re-speced for giggles? Anyone care to explain to me what he is trying to say? As well, Holy is good, but... honestly, imba? a bit of a stretch id say, the spec is balanced.
Holy, as I understand, is one of the highest represented healers at top ratings right now. While I am not saying from this information we can conclude that holy is "imba", but they are definitely one of the strongest healers at the moment. Healers are also in a higher demand than DPS as more people want to be the one wailing away on the opponent.

I also feel that you are twisting what is being said by GC, he did not state that they magically hit glad range after respeccing, it is just that holy is such a strong spec in PvP comparatively to Ret that many highly ranked paladins may have switched to it for the competitive advantage it holds.

Me: So every Ret is in fact insane for choosing that spec in the first place? ok, im sure we all knew that, I did anyways, but what else are we getting told here? That since Holy is strong that Ret should stay broken and all Paladins should roll Holy? whats the point of a talent tree?

Once again, the success of Holy Paladins this season is getting used in a very sad way to overshadow and justify keeping Rets down

p.s. See what he says? Holy is no longer imba, its "so OP". alright...
You are twisting his words again, and wouldn't the words "imba" and "OP" be meaning the same thing in the way they are both used? That Holy is above average.

The success of Holy paladins in this season is not being used as an excuse to "keep Rets down". He is just saying that the number of rets represented at higher ratings is probably low because many highly rated players want to take advantage of the benefits that lie in playing as Holy.

We have mentioned many times that we want and are attempting to improve the current state of Ret paladins, as can be seen in the patch notes. The success of one spec is not a reason to leave another in the cold, in a perfect world all specs would be equal but sadly it is not entirely plausible. We don't feel that Rets aren't viable right now or that they are bad, it's just that they simply don't perform as well as Holy and that is why their representation is lower.

Me: Ok, I can agree that Holy never rly had any offensive pressure as far as CC goes, that is if we dont count the first 1-2? seasons of Wotlk, but ok nvm. Holy was solid tons of times before, and is generally one of the strongest Healing specs. Was op a few times, but that is sorted. And imo? thats fine, if a spec works good and is not op then its fine.

p.s. Holy is apparently "just a bit OP" now... kay.
Your picking at semantics with the "OP" statements now. The general idea that he is trying to get across is that Holy is a strong spec that is capable of outperforming other healers right now, it also has benefits that outweigh those given by Ret, so many of them changed to Holy.

02/03/2013 23:43Posted by Triumvir
Alright... so from what I can see, mentioning that Holy is OP and imba in 3 out of the 4 questions that are generally about Ret tells me that Holy is gonna get stuffed. As well, their constant denial of what is going on w/ Rets indicates that no real changes are going to happen. Ret will get some love in 5.2, no questions there, our dmg will go up by a nudge, but the main problem remains, we are the #1 target for zerging down due to not having a realistic PvP defensive kit for this expansion.
Holy is receiving a few changes (most notable is the nerf to their CC chain) to lower their strengths, there are not many as you can see in the patch notes and they are far from being prevented from remaining competitive. In regards to your concern of Ret paladins receiving no survivability buffs, the patch notes show that they are receiving some very beneficial changes to their survivability and utility as well as minor increase to their damage.
  • Balance, Feral, Windwalker, Retribution, Shadow, Enhancement and Elemental now gain 25% of the bonus healing provided by PvP Power (was 0). Dedicated healers will continue to gain 50% of the bonus healing, and no bonus damage, from PvP Power.
  • Sword of Light now increases Flash of Light by 100% (was 30%) and increases the Paladin's damage with two-handed melee weapons by 15% (was 10%).
  • When Hand of Sacrifice is cast by a Retribution Paladin, all harmful magic effects are removed from the party or raid member.
  • Hand of Purity now reduces all incoming damage by 10% in addition to its other effects.
  • Eternal Flame's periodic heal now provides 100% more healing when self-cast.
There are of course other changes but these are only the increases to Rets survivability. I think that is a pretty big list of buffs, and that's not including any additional changes that have been made but not announced just yet. So you can expect an increase to your survivability, damage and utility come patch 5.2, Rets are far from not getting any real changes.

03/03/2013 09:37Posted by Jme
you certainly won't be getting any blizzard posts about ret on the EU arena forums
Why not? :(

Additionally; please stop with the flaming and stay on topic, keep this as a constructive discussion.