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Regional FlagThe 5.2 blog is tricking most peopleSource
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Kaeloth
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#1 - 2013/01/22 02:54:00 AM
into believing PvP will suddenly be about skill instead of gear

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6297383927?page=21#419

The new Elite armor will no longer be just a cosmetic difference. It will also be higher ilvl.

So what they have done is removed the rating requirements but doubled the number of conquest points it's going to take to get a full elite set. It will probably take 54,000 CP. That's 30 weeks at 1800/week.

So unless the seasons are going to be 8 months or longer so everyone can get a full elite set, the gear disparity will remain.

Edited link so it takes you directly to the blue response that says the Elite armor will be higher ilvl

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#45 - 2013/01/24 01:54:00 AM
So, reading through this thread, it seems that you guys are worried that the gear grind has grown a lot longer, and that we’ve actually widened the power gap. There are more details to come in the future, but in the meantime there are a few important things that you should know and keep in mind as we continue this discussion:

  • There are no Elite bracers, cloaks, rings, amulets or trinkets. The cost of getting all pieces of Elite gear should end up being about 17,250 Conquest Points.
  • Item level is only part of the picture. We were more generous with PvP Power and Resilience on the Honor gear.
  • The item level gap between Tyrannical items and Elite Tyrannical items is relatively small.
  • It's not relevant to 5.2, but we understand that the Item Upgrade system on Conquest gear made a long gear grind even longer. We don’t mind that it takes some time to get awesome stuff, but we also recognize the problems that this presents too, and we’re definitely giving thought to solutions.

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#105 - 2013/01/24 07:16:00 PM
01/23/2013 07:10 PMPosted by Swampdonkeys
There should never be a gear disparity in pvp.


I've heard this here and there over the years, and it comes up whenever we discuss gear in PvP. I get that the players who are really hard core about the pure, un-fettered idea of competition would prefer that PvP be a completely level playing field where skill is the sole determining factor in who rises to the top.

Philosophically, I sympathize with that perspective, and we do recognize the value in it. We actually try to offer an environment that provides most of that experience via the Arena Pass realm. Hopefully, it remains popular and we can ensure that option remains available long into the future too.

World of Warcraft is a role playing game, though, and that model isn't actually all that great for the long term health of PvP in a game like this (and even presents logistical and design challenges when considering the potential role of PvE gear in PvP or vice versa). One of the very core elements of pretty much all RPGs, and World of Warcraft in particular, is acquiring gear, leveling up, and making your character more powerful. That's the red, rich marrow packed into the very bones of the experience, and along with the fun of the core gameplay, it's a big part of what makes the various pursuits in World of Warcraft rewarding. We like getting loot, and we think it's fun. Finally earning that new piece of gear, particularly one that's powerful or looks cool, is exciting and it feels good. In PvP, the reward for dedication and prowess is earning the right to that more powerful and/or cooler looking gear.

So, yes, we want competition to be fierce (which is part of the reason we're trying new ways of gearing in PvP), but speaking for myself, I don't see a future where getting new and cooler gear isn't part of the core World of Warcraft experience, including PvP. It's also worth mentioning that, at the higher levels of competition toward the middle/end of a season, the playing field levels out to a significant degree as those players "finish" their PvP sets - or at least get close enough that decision making, skill, and coordination are the deciding factors in who wins a match, far more than a few stat points one way or another. Since a lot of these teams are also earning gear at about the same rates as the season progresses (and with catch up mechanics this will be more true than ever), it holds true throughout the season too.

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#128 - 2013/01/24 08:03:00 PM
Daxx,

Please explain to me the logic of challenge mode.


I would argue that comparing Arenas and RBGs to Challenge Modes is possible, but I'm not sure that it's wise.

Challenge Modes are niche gameplay, whereas Arenas, RBGs, non-challenge mode dungeons, and raids represent core gameplay. For example, I don't think we ever expect large numbers of players to do Challenge Modes only, the way some players are heavily dedicated to PvP to the exclusion of near all else.

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#136 - 2013/01/24 08:24:00 PM
01/24/2013 12:13 PMPosted by Deathrattles
Do you think the highest ranked chess players should get extra pieces?


Chess is a board game that's remained static since ancient times. There are very strict rules, and both sides have exactly identical capabilities. There are a ton of games out there like this, from board games, to first person shooters, to RTSes. In all of these games, the point and essence of the game boils down to pure competition, so that makes sense. Even in some of these "pure competition" games, RPG elements have crept in, like leveling or earning gear that's cooler (Not gonna name names, but these elements are present in everything from the very latest competitive shooters all the way back to the team v. team games that started it all). Why? I'd say it's because those RPG elements are fun, and they're a compelling reason to compete.

World of Warcraft is an RPG, where pure competition by itself is not at the central essence of the game. I would argue that getting more powerful and beating faces in as a result of your increased bad-assery is part of our core experience, along with lots of other RPG core elements. That doesn't mean that the environment isn't or can't be highly competitive. It certainly can be and often is. Nonetheless, as I mentioned in my prior post, if you want the closest approximation to "pure competition" in PvP that World of Warcraft offers, then you might want to keep your eyes open for the next Arena Pass realm to start.

01/24/2013 12:18 PMPosted by Positron
The point is that challenge mode offers no progression so I fail to see how this fits in the rpg logic you guys are using.


For the record, it's my logic and personal opinion, not Blizzard's logic as a whole. And I already drew the distinction. Challenge Modes don't need to offer progression because they're not core gameplay, they're a niche pursuit. I would argue that PvP is core gameplay.

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#195 - 2013/01/24 11:42:00 PM
Case in point: MOBAs. While a different sort of game, the heart of the game is in line with WoW PVP.


I would have to say that MOBA falls into the pure competition gameplay style I was talking about earlier in this thread.


Force skill to be the determining factor in Arena/BGs.


I believe that skill already primarily defines who wins or loses a match, barring significant gear disparities or class balance issues (both of which we're working to address in 5.2). It doesn't necessarily matter what you're wearing if you can't nail the execution, which is why I think we see skilled players continue to rise to the top of the ladders in season after season.

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#215 - 2013/01/25 12:52:00 AM
01/24/2013 04:51 PMPosted by Bitoquinha
Blue has abbadoned us...


I have? I don't recall destroying anything important recently?