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Regional FlagShort, Constructive LFR Feedback.Source
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Chawana
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#1 - 2012/12/13 07:30:00 AM
Edit: I am editing this post as a whole. a "-" will be placed by the altered, or added paragraphs/sentences.

I'll start by addressing why I feel the looting system is flawed. Here we go.

Reason 1: People can get an item twice, thrice, even 4-5-6-7 times. Why is this bad? If we had normal looting, they would simply pass on the item, and let someone without one get it. Basically, loot that someone COULD use is being vendored, because this faulty loot system keeps giving certain other people an item they already have.

-Solution: Remove items which a player already has from the loot table. Make an exception for any weapon which can be dual wielded to 2.

-Reason 2: The chances of getting loot are spread unevenly. Some people are lucky, others are not. This is a part of how the game has always worked, but I do not think the gap should be so large.

-Solution: Make the random numbers being generated more intelligent. Take into account the loot/gold ratio of the player, and give items accordingly. Perhaps a 5% extra hidden chance at loot (could be visible if you'd like people to show off their unluckiness) for every gold bag they receive. Players should have an equal chance at gear, and right now RNG is too discrepant...which it's meant to be, but i feel as though it is TOO discrepant the way it is now.

Reason 3: People are switching specs for fights so that the auto-loot-generator will give them spec-specific loot. I cannot remember exactly, but in DS LFR, didn't the rolls there base off what you queued as? I could be wrong.

-Solution: Add an option to receive loot for a certain spec. In this sense, going back to DS looting would be horrible. DPS would get tank gear over tank gear. So I take back any suggestion of reverting to DS loot.

-Why does this need to be fixed? 3 healing a 6 healer fight is easy for some fights, but a pain in the neck for others. This is a flaw no matter how you look at it, and is easily fixed. People are getting off-spec loot anyway, why not keep the raid the way it's supposed to be?

-Reason 4: No Off-spec gear. Bonus rolls were a great thing, but I feel as though the above has already covered this. Simply editing this section to reflect that.

-Reason 5: The excitement factor. Seeing loot drop was always fun, but so is simply getting an item directly after the boss dies. Getting gold bags from ALL the raid bosses in a week severely diminishes a lot of the excitement.

-This Isn't even about comparing it to DS LFR looting anymore. No, loot was never guaranteed. Some people have always been luckier than others. But as stated earlier, the way loot is handed out is far too discrepant, and a little messy when it comes to getting items you already have. (i have 3 unused tier shoulders in my bags. :P)

-The solutions I proposed have been edited into the reasons. I don't think Blizzard likes to go back and forth, as it is both a waste of man-power, and looks bad for the game as a whole.

Adding a few features to reduce the randomness even a little, and to remove doubles of loot appear to be the best solution.
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Other thoughts:
-If duplicate is won, you get gold, or it re-rolls for you.
-Tier pieces would not count as duplicates, or have a similar idea to dual wielding weapons.
-Place gear inside the bags with the gold. Gold would always be there, but items would be optional.
2. Duplicate drops will give an option to re-roll.

3. Duplicates give an option to trade it for a token, or keep it.

4. Duplicates have 3 options: DE, token trade, and keep. (a combination)

-If detecting duplicates is too much of a hassle...simply give everyone the option to DE their item. (with a confirmation box, of course.)

edit: would just like to say how hilarious it is, that after making this post, i've gone about 23/24ish kills without an item...only to get a 5th pair of shoulders off the boss which has not dropped my weapon for the 17th time in a row. Think i'm done with LFR. :\

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Community Manager
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#43 - 2012/12/14 09:04:00 PM
12/12/2012 11:30 PMPosted by Chawana
Reason 1: People can get an item twice, thrice, even 4-5-6-7 times. Why is this bad? If we had normal looting, they would simply pass on the item, and let someone without one get it. Basically, loot that someone COULD use is being vendored, because this faulty loot system keeps giving certain other people an item they already have.


If we were still using a looting system with finite loot drops, I think this would be more of an issue. Each fight, everyone has the same chance to get loot. It could be that many people are getting loot on a single fight, though that's very uncommon.

Because the loot pool isn't finite as it used to be, this kind of duplication isn't as much of an issue in terms of total loot awarded, though I acknowledge that it probably doesn't necessarily feel great. The psychology gets weird: "I got this item, but it could have been *that* item, so this is frustrating."

The loot is meant to be random though, which means the possibility of getting duplicates - but even that isn't necessarily all bad. Sometimes it's worthwhile to gem or enchant duplicate items in a different way for a different application. Enchanters can also benefit.

12/12/2012 11:30 PMPosted by Chawana
-Reason 2: The chances of getting loot are spread unevenly. Some people are lucky, others are not. This is a part of how the game has always worked, but I do not think the gap should be so large.


This has, alas, always been the case. On the up-side, this also eliminates Master Looter scams, and organized groups of players rolling on items for each other, wildly swinging the odds of getting loot in their own favor.

12/12/2012 11:30 PMPosted by Chawana
Reason 3: People are switching specs for fights so that the auto-loot-generator will give them spec-specific loot. I cannot remember exactly, but in DS LFR, didn't the rolls there base off what you queued as? I could be wrong.


This is a valid concern. We're looking into the possibilities of implementing an elegant method of letting players decide what spec they would like the Raid Finder loot system to use when providing rewards.

12/12/2012 11:30 PMPosted by Chawana
-Reason 4: No Off-spec gear. Bonus rolls were a great thing, but I feel as though the above has already covered this. Simply editing this section to reflect that.


The above solution could help with this. In the meantime, off-spec gearing has always been tricky, and has been the source of significant ire in the community. Nobody likes losing a main-spec roll to someone else's off-spec.

-Reason 5: The excitement factor. Seeing loot drop was always fun, but so is simply getting an item directly after the boss dies. Getting gold bags from ALL the raid bosses in a week severely diminishes a lot of the excitement.


We're actually looking at ways to make getting loot in the Raid Finder more exciting. Both in terms of visual feedback as well as making the Satchels of Exotic Mysteries more interesting.

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Community Manager
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#48 - 2012/12/14 09:13:00 PM
12/14/2012 01:08 PMPosted by Ereus
Any chance we can get other people's loot visible to raid? Its fine if I have no shot at getting it, just feels nice to see the boss drop loot instead of just a bag.


We're not sure. Would that really feel good?

I don't believe we're too keen on allowing players in the Raid Finder to trade loot, so it could feel not so great if someone else gets an item that they don't want, that you've been after, and they can't trade it to you.

That's surely already happening, but currently there's not quite the same cat-and-a-window-pane effect.