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Regional FlagCrowd control is out of control.Source
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Dmsrogue
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#1 - 2012/11/08 10:19:00 AM
There are too many CC spells in this game. What's even more annoying is that many of them are instant and once you get CC'd - you're in for a long and thrilling "can't do that" chain-CC experience.

Sure we need CC in the game. Without it it would've been too hack'n'slashy and one-dimensional, but being unable to control your character for ages (seconds do feel like ages in PvP) is not fun.

Defensive dispels being nerfed with a 8 second cooldown added quite some oil into the fire as well. The argument was "we don't feel like spamming dispel was fun" and I actually agree here. It probably wasn't. But being unable to actually play is most likley even less fun.

What I think might be a good start is to do one of the following:
1. Reduce the cooldown on PvP Trinkets to 1 min;
2. Defensive dispel cooldown reduced to 4 sec cooldown;
3. Broader diminishing returns;
4. Plain 1-2 sec nerf to CC duration.

Someone probably has a different view or better ideas, so feel free to discuss.

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#7 - 2012/11/08 12:55:00 PM
trinket used:

instant fear 7sec
poly 7sec
poly 4 sec
poly 2 sec
cyclone 7sec
cyclone 4sec
cyclone 2sec

12sec breath

repeat

untill trinket is back up

That's some good communication from whichever team you are fighting, pulling off a successful crowd control chain where you effectively shut a single player down for 33 seconds is pretty impressive. Their whole team is wasting a lot of time and effort to keep you in CC like this, your team should try and take advantage of that by putting pressure onto them so that they cannot continue the chain so effectively. Your team could also try interrupting the CC chain through use of stuns, interrupts or even CC of your own.

If a team is so focused on keeping you in such an effective CC chain for so long, then their attention is focused on that and you should take full advantage of this fact. Right now however we are content with how crowd control abilities are working, especially when you consider the trade-offs that are involved in their use such as high costs, cooldowns, cast times as well as the focus and communication that is required to maintain a successful CC chain. A key point to make is that we do not feel diminishing returns have been communicated and explained well enough and this is something that we would like to work on.

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#50 - 2012/11/08 03:54:00 PM
08/11/2012 15:08Posted by Madeon
cast times


Are we playing the same game?
One would assume so. World of Warcraft, right? :O

Even if you consider the spells that are instant, you can still interrupt CC chains through the use of your own CC, as well as blanket silences.

When the rest of us are talking about overpowered unstoppable CC we're talking about something like this baby:

Fist of Justice
Mighty Bash whoever is close to pala and Repetance
Blinding Light
Instant cyclone
NS cyclone
You can counter this chain with CC of your own on either the Druid or Paladin. Using your own tactics to counter your opponent is something that you should be doing, be it through retaliating with pressure when their focus is elsewhere or performing counter-CC.

Sure there is a fair amount of crowd control and yes dispels now have an 8 second cooldown, this does not mean that all is lost and you will spend every game just sitting in CC. You have to take a step back and understand that the meta game has changed, bring new strategies to the table and evolve the style of play. You do not have to be set in your ways and never change, I am hoping to see even more new styles of play and strategies appearing in the future and am excited to start seeing players using those more. Pretty sure we will get to see a lot of this in the Battle.Net World Championship. :D

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#60 - 2012/11/08 04:26:00 PM
08/11/2012 16:09Posted by Tublat
Those really needs to be removed, they do not promote skillful play. Why should you be rewarded with a blanket silence when you missed using your interrupt?
These are alternate uses of blanket silences, you mess up your interrupt and go "Oh damn, cannot let them cast that — blanket silence". This is fine, it just means that you wasted your interrupt and made a decision to use the blanket silence as well.

Don't forget though, blanket silences can be also be used tactfully. You can use blanket silences to strategically and pre-emptively shut another player down from using their instant cast spells. As with all crowd control, blanket silences have diminishing returns and we also try to give them healthy cooldowns to mellow them out. If you have some examples of skill-less play with silences, we would be glad to hear more about it.

08/11/2012 16:18Posted by Triumvir
I remember a time when only a few classes could CC, and u had to actually work for it, not just spam it since it has no cd or downside.
Some crowd controls have cooldowns and on top of that diminishing returns give them a downside which makes it impossible to recklessly spam because you will just burn out the DR's and your opponent will then be immune for a while.

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#65 - 2012/11/08 04:48:00 PM
08/11/2012 16:21Posted by Kerberusx
Edit: And as Mirion already pointed out, your crappy new dispel system doesn't work because of the halfassed implementation.
Okay, I understand that some of you are not that pleased with the Mists of Pandaria dispel system, that is fine. From what I read in Mírion's post, he does not mind the "think before you dispel" concept. So if you want to dispute that the 8 second cooldown system is not the best for gameplay, list ways in which you would like to see it work instead :)

08/11/2012 16:31Posted by Tublat
Blanket silences are skill-less, because you missed your interrupt but its no problem because you lockdown the player anyways. They're not fine.
And once again, that is a decision that you choose to make. If you mess up an interrupt and make a choice to not let a cast get off then that is your choice, you have simply burnt two cooldowns instead of just one. I already mentioned a couple of ways they can be used with planning and skill, stating that using them after missing an interrupt is skill-less is not entirely true as that is simply an on the spot decision made by a player, these decisions are regularly what decides the skill level of a play.

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#87 - 2012/11/08 05:34:00 PM
08/11/2012 16:49Posted by Pathos
Nakatoir, just warning you in advance, but your posts WILL be quoted on Arena Junkies and completely taken the piss out of.
I am well aware of where my post is going to be quoted, that people may not agree with what I say as well as how much it will be broken down and analysed piece by piece. This does not stop me from posting as I am here to join in on the discussion, spur additional conversation and if my posts bring more intriguing, useful and beneficial feedback in places other than just here on the forums on top of what is already out there, then that's just dandy :)

08/11/2012 16:49Posted by Pathos
Your statement that it takes any skill whatsoever and that they're only focusing on CCing and thus does no damage shows a lack of understanding of the core issues that this game has. You have probably never played high rated arena to be able to see it clearly, but there's a very good reason why consensus among gladiator level players is that CC is completely out of control.
I never said that they were purely focused on their CC and no longer doing damage and/or healing. Their focus has been split especially if they are trying to weave a CC chain, even if it is only by a little, you can use that time to take advantage of the situation. This means that you may be able to counter-CC their team or take other actions to try and put yourself ahead. Understand though, I never said that we are not open to changes to CC, feel free to post your opinions of why you feel there is too much crowd control in the game and how it affects your gameplay. We are always more than happy to hear your opinion on these matters and that is why we read the forums and also discuss it with you.

Just as a little note to finish of this post; please stop with the rating bashing, name calling and flame-baiting. Let's try and keep this thread as constructive as possible.

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#163 - 2012/11/09 01:16:00 PM
09/11/2012 11:31Posted by Enim
Also I have no clue what the hell you were thinking when implementing rain of fire stun. It's the most ridiculous ever in rbg especially with the 500% aoe range increase. It's basically aoe mace stun on a shorter cd and duration. It is not fun to be interrupt 2 spells out of 3 when noone is actually interrupting you. Mace stun was not fun, it was removed for a reason. So should this one.
A quote from the 5.1 patch notes to relieve your concern on that particular matter: "Rain of Fire no longer causes a stun after hitting a target three times."

09/11/2012 11:31Posted by Enim
Nakatoir, even though I enjoy a gm that at least seem to be pvping. You have way too many "no but if you do this you can avoid it". We do not need lessons in how to play against cc. We need some cooldowns extended and stun/silence durations shortened.
I am not trying to tell you how to play nor am I rejecting your arguments and just saying, "your doing it wrong! *Trollface.jpg*". I am offering up thoughts on how you can adapt to or accommodate for the changes to dispels and CC. I have also at no point said that we are not against making changes to CC and the dispel system, simply that we are content with where it is right now and for the moment we don't have any plans to change it.

09/11/2012 00:32Posted by Tublat
Counterspell is one cooldown, if you seriously think blanket silences promote skillful play then you're clueless. No high rated players thinks it promotes skillful play.
On the topic of blanket silences, you’re still only focusing on the concept of a player going for an interrupt and missing so they lock you out fully for (in the case of counterspell) 4 seconds instead of the additional school lockout for 6 seconds. There is the consequence that they have not gotten those extra 2 seconds of school lockout and as such may suffer for it because those 2 seconds can make a world of difference.

You are also neglecting any tactical use of these silences, such as predicting instant CC and spells to counter your opponents play. I do understand what you are saying though, we are listening to your feedback and opinions on this and other topics, so please continue to provide it :)