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Regional FlagFeedback about challenge modeSource
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Lambey
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#1 - 2012/07/03 04:24:00 PM
Ok - so now we've seen challenge mode in effect, i have a few comments to make:

Positive:
1) i like the barrier at the start. the only problem i see is wall hackers and glitchers.
2) CC being used is good. its encouraging people to learn the ins and outs of the CC spells to become efficent.
3) its good we dont use LFD for this. we have less chance of running into noobs as we did in Cata Hc's

Negative:
1) i want to spend time in a dungeon. i dont like being encouraged that for something hard i get a quick 15 minute or so burst. i want it to take time. i dont mean a raid that takes 3-4 hours, but something that keeps me busy for 40 or so minutes. this doesnt provide that in any way shape or form. its what i liked about grim batol HC - you could spend an hour in there. it took up time, kept you busy, but not too much time like raiding does. and no i dont want to do LFR which takes no time because its EASY.

2) Can't test difficulty properly. the item level normalization is set too high. if you want them to be difficult like you say, lower the item level to about 440 instead of 463. its far too high. alternatively do a massive enemy mob buff. if we dont test this it ends up unbalanced at launch

3) Lack of real reward. ok, so we get some valor. a title. a mount - i actually like that. some....transmog gear.... ok. wheres the reward? Wow got big because of a constant reward system in questing. to remove it in challenge mode seems a little....stupid. i'd make it drop LFR level gear. this makes it fairer and gives people a reward and a CHOICE. Challenge mode or LFR. this encourages players to do challenging content which helps them learn. due to not having LFD with this it reduces the cata HC problem of noobs. this would be PERFECT to push players to progress themselves AS players. making the bosses drop this but keeping the transmog actually gives even more incentive to do a challenge mode.

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Game Designer
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#6 - 2012/07/06 02:04:00 AM
Thanks for the feedback. Just to be clear, the gear "upscaling" is a beta-only feature, just to level the playing field since most players in beta will not legitimately have item level 463 gear. On the live servers, your gear will only scale down, not up.

Regarding the use of "cheesy" tactics while running challenge modes, we're looking into ways of limiting some of the most offensive ones while still allowing for planning a tactical route through the dungeon to be a major part of the gameplay. Dodging patrols, using tools like Shroud of Concealment to skip some avoidable enemies? Cool. Training through the entire Armory wing of Scarlet Halls and Mass Resurrecting on the other side? Not so cool.

As for rewards, the intent is for prestige to be the prize. When you are soaring around town on your Pandaren Phoenix, or showing off as your character becomes engulfed in flames when you /roar, everyone who sees will know that you earned those rewards through expert play, because you cannot outgear challenge modes, only outskill them.

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Game Designer
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#35 - 2012/07/19 08:42:00 PM
19/07/2012 20:19Posted by Jágger
I see the blue post in this thread says something about mass ressurrection. However you should also consider the possibilty of a group with a shaman or a combat res for that matter. You can train through the entire dungeon towards a safe spot and have a combat res on one person that then resses everyone else. I doubt I have to explain shamans ability to do the same.


Casting single-target resurrection spells to recover from an intentional wipe takes quite a while when you're aiming for a new best time, such that doing so to clear debuffs like Sated is unlikely to be a net gain. As for suiciding to skip mob packs, the intent is for the "Enemies" counter for a given challenge mode to force you to engage most of the enemies in your path. Skipping patrols and sneaking past things using clever tactics is fine, but if you use a suicide or mass-stealth approach to bypass content, you should come up short on the counter.

Philosophically, we want to try to permit the use of all player abilities in challenge modes. The restriction on Mass Resurrection is different, because guild perks were always intended to be conveniences and not competitive advantages; in a challenge mode where time is everything, however, saving up to 40 seconds on wipe recovery was a clear advantage.