Buyer beware: Scams may go unpunished

#1 - Sept. 11, 2011, 5:51 a.m.

On August 24th, I saw a hunter in Zul'Drak offering 3,000 gold for someone to camp Gondria for him, summon him to the pet, and notify him when it's up so that he can tame it. He did not want to waste countless hours searching for it. So I agreed, and I camped it for a day, and summoned him to it as agreed. So after he tames this pet, he says "Oh sorry dude, I spent a bunch of gold yesterday after I asked you. Is 1.2k fine for now?", to which I said yes, but that I would want the rest within about 2 weeks. He's all giddy and happy and everything seems fine.

So, it's now 2 weeks later, and this person will not respond to my tells and just ignores my requests for the rest of the cash. So I decided that if he's not going to play nice, I'm going to report him for scamming me.

But here is the log...

GM1: Howdy Generichero, this is Game Master #1. How are you today?
Me: Doing alright, and you?
GM1: I am well, thank you for asking ^.^
GM1: Do you have a minute to talk about the player you helped?
Me: Yep
GM1: Cool
GM1: So, this is not really something that the Game Master staff can help you with. For one, its hard to verify what exactly you did to help tame the pet. Secondly, I need the exact date you made the original agreement on so that I can look up the chat
GM1: logs.
Me: Oh boy. Uh, well figuring out the exact date is tough.. I may have taken a screenshot. I was in Zul'drak at the time so I must have been between level 75-78.
Me: The main thing I did to help secure the pet was to find the rarespawn, report it to him the moment it came up, and then summon him to the spot.
Me: To ensure that no one else could tame or kill it before he got there.
Me: He was patrolling other zones for other rarespawns and asked me to camp Zul'Drak
GM1: Honestly Generichero, I would advise you to appreciate the fact that you got any gold out of it. Thats not really a support transaction. But if you can give me the exact date you made the agreement on, I can look into it for you.
Me: Alright give me a minute to check my screenshots and see if I took one of the agreement.
GM1: Ok.
Me: I don't appear to have the exact date unfortunately. The thing is, is it not possible to try and talk to him?
Me: I doubt he would deny we had this agreement.
GM1: I could speak with him, yes, but without the chat evidence, I can't enforce anything.
Me: I gave him time out of kindness when I could have reported him immediately for offering me a false amount of gold.
Me: Alright, I understand. If I find a good screenshot or the date may I open another ticket?
Me: I'm grateful for receiving SOME payment and everything, but it's the principal that he lied about the amount that bugs me.
GM1: I hear ya. its unfortunate that people do that for sure. And I appreciate your understanding. Is there anything else I can do for you today?
Me: I just want to know if I can open another ticket about this issue should I figure out the exact date I made the agreement on?
GM1: You can for sure. I can't guarantee that we will be able to do anything for you about it, but you can definitely open another ticket if you need to. :)
Me: Alright I'll give it a shot. Thanks for the help!
GM1: My pleasure/bow. Take care and have a wonderful night Generichero. I wish you the best of luck.
Me: You too
GM1: Thanks!

GM2: You see an errie, undead servant stumble your way. You can't shake off the feeling that you've seen this gentleman before..."I have returned to serve. Greetings Generichero. This is Game Master #2. How are you today?
Me: I'm doing just fine. And you?
Me: d
GM2: I'm doing well. Do you have a moment to discuss your ticket at this time?
Me: Yes.
GM2: I understand that there was a ticket open previously regarding a possible deal made with another player, correct?
Me: Yep. He wanted to look into it further but I was unable to find my screenshot folder. I found it. The screenshot was taken on August 25th, which means that my initial contact with him was on the 24th.
Me: I found the rarespawn in question on the 25th
GM2: Understood. However, I regret to inform you these kinds of deals are not agreements that Blizzard can support, and thus, we won't be able to take any actions against this player.
Me: This doesn't qualify as a scam? He offered me 3k gold to actively look for this spawn and contact him when it was up and summon him to it.
Me: I don't see how that is any different from, say, a player paying another one to run them through a dungeon and then refusing to pay.
GM2: There are some scams that we are better able to verify with our logs, with trade agreements that we are willing to support.
GM2: However, non-item agreements like "I'll get your arena team to 2200" are not agreements that we cansupport.
Me: Well, I know for sure that we had a conversation and that he clarified more than once that he would pay me 3k gold to find it. He even apologized and paid me a portion of what he owed me.
Me: Huh...okay. That's news to me. So I can scam people out of gold with promises of arena ratings and you guys won't do anything?
GM2: Correct, and he could've paid you nothing with the same outcome as tonight. You are pretty fortunate that he offered you anything =\
GM2: If you don't even attempt to hold your part of the bargain, it is something that we might be able to look into and take actions.
Me: That seems...really vague and weak. So if I attempt a few arenas and keep their gold that's okay?
Me: Where is the line exactly?
GM2: It's not something encourage players to do. We do look at other factors when it comes to these kinds of agreements.
Me: Well, I don't think you encourage players. I'm moreso asking because I'd love to make plenty of gold ripping people off if you guys aren't going to do anything about it. :p
GM2: There are actions we can engage in if there are clear scams with clear malicious intent from one party. The fact of the matter is that this player could've paid you nothing, but they didn't display that kind of ill intent.
GM2: There is a knowledgebase page that has our policies clear and cut at http://us.blizzard.com/support/article.xml?locale=en_us&articleid=20459
Me: They did not pay what they promised.
GM2: Understood, but it wasn't a trade agreement that we, as a company, can uphold and support.
Me: Yes, they paid me some, but they will not pay me the rest of what they owe me. They did not pay the original agreed upon price, and now will not answer my tells.
Me: But I can see you're not going to budge on this so I'm not going to waste more of your time. What I would like to know is if I can post about this issue on the forums with screenshots of this conversation?
GM2: In these situations, I advise you in the future to engage in agreements that are supported by Blizzard if you want the outcome to be guaranteed.
Me: I think it's important that people see this issue, because as far as I am concerned, the fact that you will let people rip other people off as long as they pay SOME of the agreement is bogus.
Me: Especially when you can verify via logs that this player agreed to pay me.
GM2: If you believe that there should be a change in this policy, if you can be constructive in nature about it, then I wish you luck.
Me: I won't rant or anything, and I promise it won't be slander.
Me: But I think it's important to post about and I won't make it malicious
GM2: Sounds good to me. :D
Me: Well, thanks for being informative in any case.
GM2: Right on. Sorry I could not provide you with the resolution you expected. I don't like seeing these kinds of deals broken.

Vrakthris

Support Forum Agent

#99 - Sept. 12, 2011, 12:14 a.m.

I believe both Game Masters were fairly clear on our policies on the matter though the interpretation that resulted needs a little clarification.

1. If a player at least makes an ATTEMPT to pay you the full amount of what they promise, they will not be punished if they do not pay the full amount

2. Verbal agreements are up in the air if they will be punished or not. Even if they verify the log and that the player lied and agreed to pay you, they may not enforce anything.

If the transaction is unsupported, it doesn't matter if some or none of the agreed upon payment has been made, our In-Game Support department is generally unable to intervene.

09/10/2011 10:54 PMPosted by Generichero
3. Beware of making agreements with anyone that is not an official trade for an item, because it's very iffy if you will be supported.

It isn't really "iffy". If a transaction is supported there is often a mechanic that supports it (i.e. trade window, C.O.D. mail). Any agreements not for items or other "possessions" made outside of those mechanics will likely be unsupported and therefore careful consideration should be used before choosing to participate.

09/10/2011 10:54 PMPosted by Generichero
And now he refuses to pay, and both GMs told me to just be happy with what I got, and that if I got nothing they still wouldn't help me.

Since the transaction is unsupported the Game Masters were simply pointing out the positives of the situation. They indeed could have not given you any gold and we would still be in the same position.

09/10/2011 10:54 PMPosted by Generichero
In my opinion, this policy is not okay. It means that players can make promises of anything and not have to pay for it or uphold it.

Not of "anything", there are a number of transactions that are supported and have supporting mechanics in place.

09/10/2011 10:55 PMPosted by Dithered
WOW is in pure maintenance mode. They're cutting costs, reducing services, and GMs have never been more useless than they are right now.

No, Dithered, we are not in "maintenance mode" and Game Masters have never been able to assist with these types of transactions. Our In-Game Support staff also helps with more issues than ever before, not the other way around. There are some cases where our Developers have implemented a way for players to address the issue themselves (i.e. Alternate Currency Refund system), therefore freeing up our staff for assisting with other issues.

Doesn't matter, that's his job.

You take a job such as this, you better be ready that youre going to have the occasional case where you have to do just this.

Well no, it isn't. If this was an area in which we may assist with we would do what we could to verify the circumstances, but there is a great deal of data involved here. Yes, if you take a job such as this there are times when you may need to sift through streams of information in order to do your job. Those times are clearly outlined by our policies and procedures.

09/11/2011 03:13 PMPosted by Generichero
and the purpose of the thread was to raise awareness that people can be scammed through verbal agreements without reprisal.

Unfortunately, even if such advice was provided through multiple mediums it likely wouldn't reach those who would need it. While such warnings may be useful, Generichero, this thread has mostly served as a focal point for debate on this subject. While many posts remain constructive, others prove not to be and will likely attract more. For this reason I am locking this thread.

Generichero, I am sorry that we were unable to help in this case. If you wish to provide any feedback regarding the assistance our In-Game Support realms provided please write to wowgmfeedback-us@blizzard.com.