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Regional FlagT11 JP shoulders and helm - some clarity (Show MVP Posts)Source
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Shammich
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#1 - 2011/08/11 01:19:00 PM
The argument over putting t11 helm and shoulders as jp is raging. On one side you have the people that don't raid for a myriad of reasons asserting why they would like a chance to EARN the gear (until the JP cost is 0, it's not free or welfare and no, blizz is not giving it away).

On the other side you have the raiders who think it should be a reward for raiding and any other expenditure of time or effort is of no consequence. Raid or gtfo, essentially. And as a former Raider, I know raiding is hard, hard work.

But the real issue.. the REAL issue... is simply a matter of definition and purpose, I imagine. Gear, for all of it's shininess and prettiness is just a tool. Gear is like that rubber thing you buy to make twisting the top off of pickle jars easier. Tier gear is the rubber thing and the top of the pickle jar is Ragnaros or any other raid boss.

No matter how you slice it, if you make previous tier gear available for JP, dedicated raiders will STILL have better gear than non-raiders and will be able to obtain that gear more quickly - last I checked you can get points from raids AND 5-mans >.> <.< /gasp.

Is it not enough to have access to boss drops AND tier gear? Is it not understandable for someone to want to see their numbers get bigger? To see ANY mob, boss, or critter drop faster and harder and to be willing to put in the time and effort that it takes to get there?

I don't raid anymore. I used to. I know it's hard. I know you all put alot of effort into it. But let's all be honest with each other... the tool is only as good as the person holding it. We should all have the right to save up and buy that set of ratchets, but it doesn't mean we'll all be making la-z-boys in our sleep. You drop bosses because you... yes YOU.. the player are good at what you do, the gear just makes it easier.

...unless raiders are in it simply to look cool.. and that's another jar of worms.. where did I put that rubber thing?

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Community Manager
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#193 - 2011/08/11 08:48:00 PM
We've offered players who don't raid a reasonable way to gear up, and achieve high levels of power. The JP/VP system makes a lot of sense to us, and gives everyone a pretty good personal progression track in addition to loot drops, and we feel pretty good about the system as it stands. That doesn't necessarily mean that we think that full sets are a necessary part of that picture, though.

We still want to preserve some of the most prestigious PvE loot for players who face down raid content (even if it's a tier behind), and we feel that completing a tier set means that a raid needs to fit in there somewhere. That design makes sense to us, and we want to preserve some of the reward for facing down those bad guys. We re-adjusted those instances specifically to encourage players to go experience them, and we want to leave some incentives in there for players who check those raids out.

So, in conclusion, please kill Nefarian and Cho’gall. They are mean and deserve it.

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Community Manager
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#212 - 2011/08/11 08:58:00 PM
"I want what I haven't earned or I might not resubscribe"


I genuinely believe that this isn't the attitude. I think the perspective is "reward me for playing the game the way I want to play it." I can understand that perspective.

The challenge comes when our design intentions don't mesh with that. We want rewards to retain at least some meaning, because when they don't, all the aspects of play start to blend together. Greater challenges should offer greater rewards, but how do you accomplish that if you also allow lesser challenges to provide all the same rewards, across the board?

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Community Manager
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#226 - 2011/08/11 09:08:00 PM
Daxx...maybe the issue is that raiding is the only form of progression at end game.

And as time consuming as it is, some people just can't do it.

But those same people love the game and want to continue to progress and gear their characters, but have maxed out all available options (apart from raiding).


That's been a long-standing challenge, I think, and the JP/VP system is the compromise answer to it. Please recall that at one time if you wanted purps then you went into a raid, period. We've come a long, long way since then.

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Community Manager
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#241 - 2011/08/11 09:19:00 PM
But what about those of us that kill them 23098230948 times (pure estimation) that never seem to got lucky.

Would it be possible to at some point, trade in extra, unused tokens for another (ex. Conq for Vanq etc)


Those of us who have suffered this fate are what are called 'statistical outliers'. Some would call it 'unlucky'. We are, alas, the chosen few who must shake our tiny fists and curse the fickle gods of RNG and keep trying.

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Community Manager
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#247 - 2011/08/11 09:22:00 PM
08/11/2011 02:21 PMPosted by Kara
Not only is he not mean. He's gotta be in the running for Humanitarian of the Year after all that.


Dragonitarian?

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Community Manager
Target Source
#256 - 2011/08/11 09:28:00 PM
We've offered players who don't raid a reasonable way to gear up, and achieve high levels of power. The JP/VP system makes a lot of sense to us, and gives everyone a pretty good personal progression track in addition to loot drops, and we feel pretty good about the system as it stands. That doesn't necessarily mean that we think that full sets are a necessary part of that picture, though.

We still want to preserve some of the most prestigious PvE loot for players who face down raid content (even if it's a tier behind), and we feel that completing a tier set means that a raid needs to fit in there somewhere. That design makes sense to us, and we want to preserve some of the reward for facing down those bad guys. We re-adjusted those instances specifically to encourage players to go experience them, and we want to leave some incentives in there for players who check those raids out.

So, in conclusion, please kill Nefarian and Cho’gall. They are mean and deserve it.


It really doesn't help that the only 2 slots my alts don't have a 359 or greater in already is a shoulder and helm slot. Pugging a instance for 1 of 2 items doesn't seem very fun to me. Probably would of been more worth it if I didn't get 359 chests, legs, gloves, a ring, boots, and a trinket already from JP on them and a 365 cloak and quite a few other 365 items in the Molten Front.


My perspective would be this: I'm probably already farming VP to buy tier 12 stuff. I might as well farm VP in last tier's raid instance, so I can get a double shot at rewards I'm interested in (including trinkets and other incidentals which might be better than their vendor counterparts, or BoEs to sell).