#0 - Dec. 7, 2006, 12:09 p.m.
Positive Changes:
- -(PvP & PvE) Arms now gives 4% more damage to a target with deepwounds or rend up.
-(PvP & PvE) MS takes a second less to cooldown.
-(PvP & PvE) MS hurts 5% more.
-(PvP) Second Wind is nice for rage generation and healing. in One verus One, this makes a difference.
-(PvE) Improved Thunderclap is a nice support ability.
-(PvE) AP is raised quite high by the Fury tree.
-(PvP & PvE) Talent specs are, as intended, varied across the board. The Cookie Cutter is no more (with the exception of Endless Rage being seen as necessary for every PvP build).
-(PvE) Improved Slam is a great 2H Fury talent.
-(PvP) Crowd control doesn't last as long.
-(PvE) Devestate provides similar base threat to a sunder once 5 are applied, but also provides damage threat, and can crit.
TBH, if these were the only changes, this patch would be absolutely great! but, as always, that's not the case. read on.
Negative Changes:
- -(PvP & PvE) Rage Normalisation means 2H Fury is completely dead. This negates Improved Slam completely, making it an empty waste of talent points. You simply cannot get rage with a two hander, without putting 41 points into Arms.
-(PvP) The 41 point, be all and end all talent in the Arms tree is a shoddy quickfix to broken game mechanics. Not my impression of it, but the entire Warrior classes impression of it.
-(PvE) The 41 point, be all and end all talent in the Fury tree costs too much rage, and gives little or no payoff in comparison with a) the existing AP boosts and b) the paltry DPS increase that much AP provides.
-(PvE) Resilience on mobs means the all important Warrior crit rating is meaningless. I've experienced it personally, and complaints about lack of crit are everywhere. What should be one in four melee crits, turns out to be one in 10. This could be a result of the entire melee population of the game gaining the worst luck ever, but I don't think so.
-(PvP & PvE) Fury has given us an extra 3% chance to hit, I miss more than ever.
-(PvP & PvE) Other classes have had their damage output raised significantly. Some by new instant attacks (Hunters, Paladins), some by new talents and spells (Mages), some by +spelldmg gear buffing DoT damage (Warlocks). Warriors have not received a similar level of buffing, nor have we received an improvement to stamina co-efficients to counteract.
-(PvP) Other classes have more crowd control. lengthy CC now lasts approx. half the time, so CC classes were given an extra 2 or 3 CC's to compensate, daze and stun based things. Warriors have not yet been given no form of anti-kite or anti-snare.
-(PvP & PvE) Rage Normalisation has destroyed any rage gain from haste effects. Flurry, enchants, weapon procs, are all now completely useless. Fury is awful for rage normalisation, and in turn Rage distribution in comparison to its old self. And that is with the 5 man blues and greens this change would allegedly help.
-(PvE) Weapon Skill has been removed, most blows are glancing, reduced crit rate through resilience cuts melee boss DPS in half, perhaps more. EDIT now confirmed by another poster on the forum that Fury DPS for Naxx Warriors has gone from 900 DPS to about 500DPS. not quite halfed. this is affecting Rogues quite badly, and the Mages are feeling it as well due to some ignite alterations. not surprisingly, Warlock DPS is up a lot.
-(PvE) Our static threat abilities do not scale, the threat abilities of the Hybrid classes DO scale, and threaten to surpass our tanking abilities in the very near future. (for more info please see this thread http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=92319770&sid=1) the Warrior lives in the shadow of itemisation, except this time it isn't to our advantage.
-(PVE & PVP) Reports coming in from guilds running BWL and Naxx that because armour has been buffed but damage mitigation from armour nerfed, Tanks are dropping like flies, and some of the current endgame is currently impossible.
-(PvP & PvE) The game is now balanced around level 70. I am not level 70, I do not even have the opportunity to be level 70 for a month at the very least.
Questions that must be asked as a result of this patch:
- Question One: A Warrior is a DPS/Tank Hybrid. The Warrior community takes this POV: "if we spec for damage we have no aggro control, no survivability and no other utility than damage (you can't tank endgame with DPS spec in Fury gear), therefore our damage must be high, otherwise we are worthless". All other classes say "if you want to do DPS roll a pure DPS class like Mage and Rogue". What is Blizzards POV? Do you factor raid utility in when considering a classes DPS? Where do you see Fury Warriors in comparison with "pure" DPS classes? Do you think a Fury Warrior is capable of tanking as utility, and thusly we should find himself in the middle of the damage meter, where he was at the top pre-patch?
Question Two: In PvP, how can you continually shove the "group PvP" excuse down our throats? A Warrior functions well in a group because when kept unsnared and alive, we can put out good damage. Well there are classes that can put out even better damage, keep themselves unsnared, and keep themselves alive. A Warrior is supposedly the ultimate group PvP class. "Any group containing and maintaining a Warrior will triumph over the BG", that's the official take on it. So why then are the other classes involved in this imba group, the healers, the purgers, and the dispellers given one on one viablity? Take it away from them, and give them the "group PvP" excuse and see how well they react. If a Mage is a glass cannon, a Warrior is a plastic knife. We are the ONLY class who are meant to rely on a group for PvP, if no-one else needs to rely on a group, are we only meant to be grouping with Warriors? Explain.
edit to this question - http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=55006548&sid=1&pageNo=3
that's a link to Priests being told they need one on one PvP viability. that's a kick in the teeth for the Warrior, considering a Priest (or other healer) is pretty much the key component to a successful PvP team. Tseric recently addressed the American Warrior community on a number of issues. I would like to stress the fact that EVERY Warrior with a brain aknowledges that Rage had to be changed, and that a full rage bar after two swings is a) overpowered and b) pointless. however, as per usual, Tseric dodged the questions by misreading them, mis-quoting them, and flat out ignoring the real concerns. here are two excellent comebacks:
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=95110114&sid=1
Question Three: I was under the impression, as were many others, that one shotting was being addressed. Simple question, that is not the case, why, and do you intend to do anything about it? We still need to play this game for a month before the expansion is released, and even then I've seen the HP pools at 70, and I've seen Shadowbolts and Pyroblasts at 70. it would be nice to hear that Instagibbing will NOT happen. As an aside, I would also like to raise the fact that Warrior PvP, solo AND group is based around the fact we have massive damage output, so must be kited at all costs. We rely on the white crit/MS crit/sword spec crit to happen when the enemy slips up or when our team ensure we remain unsnared. we don't have enough variation in our abilities to rely on anything else OTHER than the instagib. What happens to Warrior PvP design if one-shotting is in fact, resolved? Are we to be kited across entire zones only to find if we do get close enough, there is no burst damage to make it count?
Question 4: Can we have an official justification for the alleged rage nerfs on Haste effects? It's a subject that remains untouched by CMs and Devs AFAIK. considering the amount of heresay and gossip getting everyone worried, it would be nice to see some formulas disproving, or at least saying if it's real, then it's an issue that will be looked at.
source: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=50725960&sid=1&pageNo=1
I would greatly appreciate some kind of response for this post. It took me a long time to write, I think everything is a fair, justified point. Even if a CM cannot answer the post, some kind of recognition, and assurance that the issues may be passed on would be nice.
EDITS - have added the extra BWL and Naxx trash/boss damage, and also some rough figures about the Fury DPS nerf.
