#0 - Dec. 11, 2006, 10:02 a.m.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html;jsessionid=1C09637CA966DB1A0F90071360A64412?topicId=54978274&sid=1
Where Tseric makes some of the following points: Yes Blizz know that warriors are not as powerful as other classes but there will be a drastic change at 70 with the gear. Yes blizzard know that warriors are useless at 1vs1 pvp, but thats a natural flaw in the class that blizzard don't care less about, so deal with it.
This is despite the fact that every other class is buffed 1vs1 except rogues, and despite the fact that blizzard in their wisdom have made a new pvp system which is based around 1vs1. GG.
Anyway on to the posts, one by Mojonixon on page 8, and one by Akane on page 18, which are the two best posts I've ever read, each well written, logical, and totally owning everyone. Also both were utterly ignored. So I'm reposting them for people to deliver their comments on the worthiness of these posts.
Tseric says:-
If you're going to talk about solo PvP balance, I am simply going to restate what any class developer is going to say. The game isn't designed for you to have any assurance of winning a solo fight. If you want to duel, that's fine. If you find yourself alone on a battleground, that happens, too. But there has never been a guarantee for any class of a win in a solo PvP situation.
Tseric,
You are either a fool, a liar or both. I havent seen any calls for an insta-gib in 1v1 situations. In any given 1v1 matchup warriors are almost 100% guaranteed to lose against an equally geared and skilled opponent. Were not asking for a leg up, were asking for a chance at survival and effectiveness. There is no assurance of winning a fight, unless youre fighting a warrior.
If you want to call another class overpowered, go right ahead. I might even agree with you. What is not going to help your game is to think you should have counters for every 1v1 PvP situation built into your class, which is what I hear a lot of from many classes.
Its not a matter of individual classes that our complaints are based on, its the idea of how skills, synergies and counters work. In matchups wit ha rogue, for instance, you can be kited with cripling poison, have the rogue run out of range regardless of being subject to hamstring or piercing howl, restealth, sap, eat drink, re-apply poison, balance their checkbooks, wait for their cooldowns to refresh and kill you at their leisure. Mages can EASILY kill a well geared warrior with Rank 1 spells and prevent the warrior from EVER laying a single effective hit on them. A warlock can easily stack a sufficient amount of damage on a warrior to guarantee his or her death, with the warrior having no ability to prevent this eventuality. Its not that we are calling into question the relative power of any other class than our own. To have effect, we have to be able to get up close and personal. The CC, snare and diminishing returns abilities are too heavily weighted against warriors. We need counters, balance and some semblence of equity if were going to compete as a class.
Example, warriors want crowd control or caster counters. Your a melee class and it is an intended weak side for the class to be suseptible to crowd control or snares. You do have some abilities that can break certain situations, but it is only for certain situations.
It is one thing to be susceptible to certain forms of damage, it is a completely different thing to be completely helpless against them. Our primary susceptibility to just about anything is the rage mechanic. If you can prevent us from doing anything, you can prevent us from being ABLE to do anything, not terribly fair, but a fact of life. The casting of sheep leaves us not only helpless but the soon to be recipient of a 6 second cast spell. Snares COULD be countered by the application of our own snares, except warrior snares are NOT as effective as any other snares (save perhaps warlocks) and almost every other class has a counter with the exception of warriors. I wont even go into how potentially imbalancing the effect of 'no rage from sheilds' is, as Im sure you (should) know and have certainly been informed.
There will never be 'balance' for 1v1 just as there will never be 'balance' for world PvP. The factors are either minute in one case or too numerous in the other. We deal with the middle ground of dealing with group elements.[/quote]
Im not talking about minute changes, it is the basic flaw of the present system of class functionality. Im not even mentioning the laughable nature of our 41 point talents or the amazingly useful 41 point abilities (41 point BM talent, anyone?) that other classes have received, even though some of these talents seem to be more suited to warriors than other classes. You have given most classes new damage, CC options, survivability and counters without offering anything in kind to warriors. Spell deflection? Youre kidding, right? The only ones that would have 30 rage to use it will be warriors with second wind, and since our wep swaps give us a global coldown, wed be unlikely to get it off in the cast time. And in the unlikely event we DO get it off, a mage/lock/priest can interrupt their cast, and drop a low rank spell to burn what is in effect 1/3 of our ability bar.
I could go on and on, but wont. I also have a great many suggestions about leveling the playing field somewhat to make all classes a bit more balanced and fun to play, but once again, wont even bother. What I will and am objecting to, is your smug and unctuous weaseling attempts on these boards. If the intent is to eliminate or marginalize warriors in almost every field of game endeavor, then so be it, youve done that and more. But if you (plural) are looking to produce and advance a well thought out balanced game that will reward a skilled and thoughtful player for making sound reasonable choices, you have failed and miserably so. And to see you come here and attempt to reflexively place blame of the warrior community and not recognize the culpability of the devs and yourself makes me want ot pop enrage on your sorry self...
My 2cp
