HellCry on the TBC warrior – I Talents

#0 - Nov. 21, 2006, 9:53 p.m.
Blizzard Post
I was ancient when most of you were young. I have seen the rise and fall of the Warrior class. I have spent way to much time on the warrior. I have tried everything possible. This is why I am posting a series of very long and very constructive posts regarding the warrior in TBC. Since we will spend a few weeks tops levelling to lvl 70 I’ll focus on lvl 70. I am a Warrior at heart and would hate to be forced to reroll, this combined with lack of good feedback is why I am doing this. This is very long and mainly aimed to be forwarded by a CM to the devs. Feel free to discuss and argue with my opinions as long as you do it in a constructive way.

Ill start off with talents, going through each one of them, explaining why they are good or bad and how they could be improved, without overpowering them.

ARMS


Improved Heroic Strike

A so-so talent only good if you really spec solemnly for PvE dps. With the incoming rage nerf it might become a bit better though. However in endgame most off heroics efficient rage-cost comes from the rage you won’t get from the white swing. Taking 3 rage off 15 might seem like a fair chunk, when the true cost is closer to 30 the talent gets less effective. Another, more appealing, design of this talent would be to let you gain a percentage of the rage you would have gained from the white hit.

Deflection

1 % parry per talent point is a fair deal. It seems a bit misplaced though since it is a purely defensive talent it would make more sense in the prot tree.

Improved Rend

Even with the scaling the dmg on rend is neglectable. A talent improving next to non existent dmg is not a good one. The problem isn’t the talent, the problem is that the base skill is the worst DoT in the game.

Improved Charge

A talent that gets relatively worse as your gear gets better. If you can get 30+ rage after charge and the first hit it’s not so good at all. Improving the range on charge as well or instead would mean A LOT, more on this in a later post.

Iron Will

Stun resist is not a bad thing. However I'd say it’s the least dangerous form of CC for us warriors. Denying a paladin to heal up because of a resisted HoJ will turn the tide in your favour. Many rogues assume all stuns will land and don’t have a backup plan if that doesn’t happen, thus panicking and loosing. Sure things like that are great. But me getting stunned doesn’t mean I lost. Getting polymorphed or seduced usually does. I don’t really get why it helps vs. charm effects. It is like 2 spells, and one them even a pet spell, that can charm us in PvP. Instead of helping vs. stuns and charm I’d like to see it help against roots and slows. Those are far more dangerous imo.

Improved Thunder Clap

From being a terrible talent it is now ok. It seems like arms warriors will get a debuff role in raids in TBC (if there is room for them at all) and it fits that theme. The dmg from TC is still a joke. The debuff on the other hand is very useful, especially if it stacks with full conq (that we won’t use @ 70 anyways but still).

Improved Overpower

A backbone talent in the Arms tree. A must have that makes the warrior feel like a warrior. Good thing you reverted the OP nerf, that one didn’t make any sense at all to me.

Anger Management

This one you either think is pure crap or you love it. Me myself I had it for so long so I depend on it. With the ragenerf it will become a good asset for PvE dps as well. Personally I also find it useful for tanking. This one is great if you ask me.

Deep Wounds

A double edged sword in PvP if you ask me. Sure some extra dmg is always nice, denying your opponent a chance to bandage is another good thing. However at times you want to int shout->bandage or you are tanking a mob that is about to be polyed/shackled (KT adds…), on those occasions it screws it up. That is ok though if you ask me, but I fully understand ppl. who wouldn’t want to have it but must have it since it is a prereq for impale. Unlinking it from impale could be an idea maybe?

The biggest issue with deep wounds though is the resetting issue. It is utterly useless for DW since it resets all the time so you hardly ever get a tick. This is poor design imo and I am pretty sure it is an overlooked issue. It should either stack like ignite or just reset the duration without interfering with the ticks. If this is to hard to implement making it not refresh on a new crit would be better then how it is in its current state. Making it stack like ignite would make it more desirable for DW wars without improving it much for 2h wars. I say it again, the resetting when refreshing needs to be fixed.

Two-Handed Weapon Specialisation

If you use a 2 hander you should get this one if you ask me. However paladins get 6% for a mere 3 talent points (1 tier further down though) and shamans get a 10% dmg increase for 5 talent points. Isn’t the warrior supposed to be the master of melee combat? Does it make sense that our 2h talent in the ARMS tree is worse then the paladin and shaman version? 10% is a bit over the top though, I can agree on that and I understand why it isn’t the same as the paladin version. We are however pressed for talent points in this stage of the arms tree. Giving us the same 2h spec as paladins have would make sense and would be fair. It is in no way overpowering seeing how many more or less must have 5 point talents there is in the arms tree.

Impale

More dmg on yellow crits is not a bad thing. However this talent is overrated by many warriors and is not as strong as it may seem when you first look at it (se how many % of your total dmg that comes from yellow crits). It is fine as it is though. Unlinking it from deep wounds might be a thing to discuss to think about.

Poleaxe Specialization

This is my favourite weapon spec for PvP. I am not that keen on the whole weapon specialization thing though. It limits your weapon choices. Having the same talents but making them work for every weapon would be an interesting change (and you don’t need to overpower deep thunder compared to other crafted 2-handers just because mace spec is the weakest of the warrior weapon specs). This thing goes for rogue weapon specs as well. There is not room for either warriors or rogues to pick up several weapon specs unless you want to gimp yourself. If you prefer a chance to get an extra attack over 1% crit it would be nice if you could get that even if you happened to have a nice mace or axe instead of a sword. I doubt you will change your mind on this one but many rogues and warrior agree with me on this one. The way it works now basically makes some weapon types more desirable then others, I don’t know if that was what you intended but that is the effect it has.

Sweeping Strikes

Even after the nerfs I like it and I consider it as one of the defining ARMS talents. The range on it is a bit low though and the targeting seems weird at times.

Mace Specialization

It needed a buff and it got one. From what I have seen and heard it seems to go off quite a lot. I still feel it is the weakest weapon spec even though the extra rage is nice after the rage nerf.

Sword Specialization

A lot of warriors love this one. I’m not so keen on relying on procs. I have had more instagibs then I can count and I understand that some warriors love it. As I said earlier weapon specs are a bad idea since it limits your weapon choices based on what you prefer. A "fighting style" specialization would be a better approach booth for rogues and warriors since it would let you specialize the way you felt fitted your play-style instead of having to specialize based on what weapon you currently are using.

Weapon Mastery

With the upcoming +skill nerf this talent is more or less awful, more on that in a later post. The disarm immunity can be sorted with gear instead. Since this talent was implemented before the +skill nerf, and a very good one at that time, I expect to see it changed unless you are making some changes to how +skill will work.

Improved Hamstring

Some ppl. love it, some ppl think it is useless. It is very nice when it goes off I cant argue with that, however relying on lucky procs isnt something I like but thats just me. Changing this back to the way it was (5/10% more slow on hamstring) could be an idea but in some match-ups it would be overpowered (when you play other classes you realise how annoying and powerful hamstring already is) It is fine as it is, not a must have but a nice PvP talent for the ones who like it.

Improved Disciplines

Reducing the cooldown on our powerful 30 min abilities by up to 10 minutes and upping the duration by up to 6 seconds might seem very good at first. Still I don’t think many will use this at all though. You still won’t be able to use those abilities in the arena. For roaming PvP it will be quite nice I guess. It might be worth to have while levelling up. Don’t know how to make this one more desirable really. I feel that its biggest flaw is in its placement within the tree. Down here there simply are so many better ways to spend your points.

Blood Frenzy

I like this one. It feels like a defining talent and might be a reason to bring an arms warrior to the raid. It might even make you use rend!

Mortal Strike

The ability to that made me love my warrior. Even after all the nerfs it took during WoW beta it is still good. Its first incarnation was a bit to powerful dmg wise. However I don’t see why the dmg on it got nerfed over and over when that wasn’t what made it overpowered. The debuff is what makes this talent so powerful. This alone might make it worth to have a warrior in your arena team. Tons of mana will go to waste healing a Mortal striked target. In PvE it is very weak though. I don’t like how extremely bad it scales (just compare it to Bloodthirst).

Continued -->
#24 - Nov. 22, 2006, 4:03 p.m.
Blizzard Post
Hello Hellcry :-)

I just wanted you to know that we have read your very long and detailed posts, hence the blue tag. You have some very interesting views and very insightful feedback.

Your feedback is indeed very constructive and very useful, which is greatly appreciated. However for future reference, we do have a small request for when you (and everybody else for that matter) create threads like this one: When you have such a massive quantity of feedback and comments meant for us and/or the developers, please try to shorten it down a little or change the formatting (but not so much that the essence of what you want to say gets lost). A shorter yet detailed text would make it much easier for us to gather and forward your feedback :-)
#28 - Nov. 22, 2006, 4:24 p.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:
I just wrote a responce whining about CM's rather discussing ascii cocks then giving us a sign that they indeed do read constructive stuff even though it is terribly wrong. Good thing the foum monster ate it I guess :D

I did try to shorten it and my formatting got screwed when I pasted it on to the forums. The next parts will be shorter and now that I know for sure that you read it I will make sure to get it done.

Thanks for stopping by, small things like this means alot to the community.


:-)
#79 - Dec. 12, 2006, 7:44 p.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:
First Wow forum post i read in a year.. and im impressed. Almost all your remarks are correct, but im afraid that in typical blizzard fashion, you wont get any answer or be given any consideration until you are about to pay good money again - in the 2nd wow expansion.


It's impressive to see how you are able to know exactly how things work after reading one whole post this year.
#81 - Dec. 12, 2006, 8:04 p.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:


:-) he is leet, ofc he knows!

Oh and thanx for the small posts, we love it when you stop by :)

BTW do you know or have any base to guess form when there will be some feedback form the devs on the "theese questions needs answers imo" post? I am really looking forward to it! You think you can make a new post where you quote it? because the thread is becomming long, and its easier to spot a new thread ;)


I don't dare to make a guess since people will be coming after me if I'm wrong, but hopefully soon â„¢.